PS3 PS2 icon not trasnparent???

Discussion in 'PS1/PS2/PSP on PS3' started by shattered, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. 5
    0
    5
    shattered

    shattered Forum Noob

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    I recently started creating pkg's for PS1 and PS2 to play on my PS3. I have no problems with PS1, but when I try to create an ICON0.PNG for PS2, it has a white background. The png file is saved to the desktop and doesnt have the white background. Am I missing something??

    Also, when I set it back to default, the included png doesnt show a white background. Im guessing the problem is in the save process, but then again, Ive never had this issue with the PS1 png's. Any help is appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. 9,380
    3,481
    472
    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    9,380
    Likes Received:
    3,481
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Great Gig in the Sky
    perfect question for @sandungas . he actually made a transparency graph for the various playstation formats. I'm not sure if it will be helpful though as I think it's for webman mod, but the dimensions 194 x 194 pixels iirc may stilll be valid.
     
  3. 5
    0
    5
    shattered

    shattered Forum Noob

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Thanks for the response. I should've mentioned that I am running HAN on a PS3 Super Slim 4000 series OFW
     
  4. 4,221
    3,784
    372
    DeViL303

    DeViL303 Developer PSX-Place Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Messages:
    4,221
    Likes Received:
    3,784
    Trophy Points:
    372
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ireland
    Home Page:
    Depending on the software you use if could be down to the bit setting when exporting the image. Paint.net for example only seems to show transparency on 8 bit and 24 bit for me, 16bit shows white.
     
  5. 5
    0
    5
    shattered

    shattered Forum Noob

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Im using Photoshop CC 2017. Its really strange. I create and save exactly the same way Ive always done. It worked for the PSone games. I couldnt get the PS2 iso to load in the latest PS2gui so I had to revert back to an older version. I thought maybe the older version had a bug or something. Its frustrating.
     
  6. 2,742
    2,303
    372
    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    2,303
    Trophy Points:
    372
    Location:
    Babylon 20xxE series
    My bet is something like what devil303 said, but PNG allows for a few different features for transparency and i dont know how that info is stored

    But one thing you should not do is (in photoshop) when saving the file to PNG dont save it as "interlaced"
    PNG interlaced is for web (it allows to load the images faster)... but the PS3 doesnt supports it
     
  7. 5
    0
    5
    shattered

    shattered Forum Noob

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Mine is always set to 8 bits. Ive never changed it, and like I said, it works fine when I am working with PSone games. Its also fine when I save it to the desktop....no white background. The only time there is a white background is when its inside the PS2 gui. I gave up and went with a full pic for the ICON0. Its not what I wanted but oh well.
     
  8. 1,528
    1,321
    272
    Berion

    Berion Developer

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    rom0:/
    In Photoshop I strongly not recommend to use build-in PNG plugin. Instead use http://www.fnordware.com/superpng/ and very handy option: "clear transparent". I have no idea what this exactly doing but it is not the same as removing transparent from image. Also, Photoshop doesn't proper handle 8-16bit images with alpha (even with newest renting versions...). Instead, I'm using https://pngquant.org/. This duo solved all my problems with PNGs on PS3 and PSV.

    However, You can also use Gimp and his PNG export. It's the same good as PS+SuperPNG as have also this option during export.

    Yet still the best graphic application to export polishing is... OPTPIX Image Studio. Ridiculously high prise but colour reduction and alpha manipulation is pure gold. If someone doesn't care about piracy, there is leaked PS2 edition of this app (in the past every platform have specific format oriented edition to maximize profit...). It is ancient app but PNG is also ancient and fully supported. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    jolek, sandungas and DeViL303 like this.
  9. 5
    0
    5
    shattered

    shattered Forum Noob

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Wow, thanks for the info. I'll look into it.
     
  10. 2,742
    2,303
    372
    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    2,303
    Trophy Points:
    372
    Location:
    Babylon 20xxE series
    While looking at the software you mentioned i found this benchmark https://css-ig.net/png-tools-overview
    And https://css-ig.net/pingo
    I guess you knew about it, im just posting it for others to take a look

    Btw, superPNG uses pngquant internally, right ? (so is the same stuff overall)
    SuperPNG requires photoshopCS3, but i like to use photoshop 7 (because it has everything i need, is only 200mb installed, it can be made "portable", and the CS versions sucks imo)... so i need to use pngquant i guess :) command line
    And another tool i liked from the ones you use to mention is optiPNG, mostly because is lossless, so i guess it can be made a pngquant ---then---> optiPNG ?... or this is a nonsense ?

    That other tool you mentioned... optpix seems to be intended for hardcore color palette reductions, right ?
    Ive seen the specific versions for console manufacturers (PSP, DS, PS2, etc...) so i guess is very good in his task... but im not going to use it (ignored by now), just because the other tools does color reductions too (maybe not so good as optpix but aceptable)

    Last one i need to try is that pingo ... la madre que le pario
     
    Berion likes this.
  11. 1,528
    1,321
    272
    Berion

    Berion Developer

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    rom0:/
    @sandungas
    I'm using pngquant only for colour reduction. It's just super easy for me to drag and drop output file into batch. ^^

    SuperPNG doesn't reduce colours, I'm using it only because of "clear transparent" option which for some reason is crucial in PSP/PSV/PS3 png files. But it is sufficient to using Gimp for that task, as this app have the same png plugin capability and it's free instead to Photoshop.

    OptiPNG removing useless meta data from the header and trying the best compression. I also using it just by drag and drop file over executable. If You plan using PNGQuant to 256 colours reduction, is not usable to try optipng. And BTW, some of PSV images after "optimizing" are not show (i.e background in applications, probably due to it's size, files below ~4KB aren't displaiyng).

    Yest, OPTPIX is a very specialised gamedev tool which i.e Squaresoft using in they glory ancient times. It's main purpose is automatic colour reduction from i.e 24/32bit to 2/4/8/16bit. This soft calculating it in a magnificent way! Very fast and very accurate for human eye. It also offering choosing every single alpha bit and change it for anything user want. Leaked version is old but have excellent TIM and TIM2 support (better than official PS plugins). But the price was ridiculous... Over 3000$ per license and only after dev verification (no licenses for random indie dev studios). I also don't using, just sharing the experience from old times.

    Photoshop CS6 can be reduced to ~300MB. But it is not recommended as some tools and resources are quite handy. Anyway, I don't like subscribe business models so I'm stay in CS6 probably forever. I like some of the new features in CC but it's not worth lose freedom (I hate online obligatory cycle validations).

    And thanks for the links. I didn't know them. ^^
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
    sandungas likes this.
  12. 2,742
    2,303
    372
    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,742
    Likes Received:
    2,303
    Trophy Points:
    372
    Location:
    Babylon 20xxE series
    The problem with pngquant is the modification is extreme, by reducing the color depth to 8 bits there is a lot of info lost
    This works by creating a color palette with 256 colors... so the resulting file is like "PNG indexed color with palette"
    If the console supports it then is fine, also it depends of the kind of image we are talking about... for an small icon 256 colors is good enought... specially if the icon is just using a color degrade (like the official icons of PS3 with white)

    The problem of color depths related with consoles is because every bit needs to be "assigned" to a channel, and there is fully freedom for that, as example for 16 bits you can do this:
    RGBA4444
    RGBA6660
    RGBA5551
    RGBA6541
    RGBA4561
    etc...

    This aplyes to the pixel info itself (without palette), or only to the palette (so pixel info is 1 byte each that works as a pointer to the palette for a max of 0xFF colors in the palette)

    --------
    The "clear transparent" of superPNG i think it does a scan of the pixels with lowest transparent levels and "cleans" them, as example... if the image has an area that is supposed to be fully transprent that pixel info should be stored with lot of zeroes... but instead of that there are many programs that adds some weird small values, like this:
    Instead of having #00000000#00000000#00000000#00000000
    the image has #01000000#00000020#00030000#00001200
    The "clear transparent" takes all that pixels (that are not even visibles on screen) and replaces them by zeroes by using some limit (everything under 1% transparency = zero)

    The commands i like from optiPNG are the ones that deletes the metadata... it seems that ones are a "must do" even if you process the image with other program before
    I have not tryed it... but i have noticed optiPNG has several options to "preserve" the original color depth, palette, and colors (is something like -nc -np -nb), by doint that combo optiPNG only cleans the "garbage" metadata, maybe some padding areas, or dunno... the point is the color info is preserved (so visually there is not any change but the filesize is smaller)
    I guess there must be other tools that does this... but thinking in performing all actions with a batch... i think the last step of the script could be optipng doing this cleanup

    -----
    Btw, did you know GimConv.exe (the tool used in PS3 theme editors and RCOmage) allows to create and transform TIM files ?
    I realized about it when messing around with it and i noted some experimental tests here, at bottom of the page
    http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Talk:GimConv
    Actually... you can use GimConv.exe to create RGBA PNG based formats (and allows to reorder color channels in any order, and different color depths with palettes or not)
    Is a little tool but it does a lot of things, more than i could imagine, and is not intended only to PSP and PS3 consoles, GIM format was intended to "unify" lot of features supported by lot of image formats

    -----
    I installed photoshop 7 yesterday and is only 72mb (i deselected imageready in the installer) and it flyes, lol
    They have gone downhill since CS (v8) when it started losing eficience and increasing in complexity... i know there are a lot of goodies in versions over 7 (mostly related with the tools/toolbox or layers management) but are not so important imo... i mean i would like to have them running in photoshop 7 but i dont want to pay the penalty of making the program more complex
    In photoshop CC the product they are selling is a "service" instead of a program... because is under montly subscription, and the price is insane for a casual user (is like 40€ every months)
    How they pretends for a normal user to pay that just to make some image edition for hobby ?
    At that price is only for professionals (that makes money from it, by selling his work), but for normal people is a no way
    Is a bad marketing practise... i mean... i understand adobe deserves to be in the top one position in the rank of image editors and his product needs to be paid as a professional tool of the higest level... but not allowing other people to use it is like shooting in his feet

    And the most time it passes... gimp is becoming better, now they are very close, most people did not know (included me until some weeks ago) but gimp allows to use plugins that "mimicks" some photoshop functions
    There is one to add the "layer effects" (you know... drop shadows, bevel and emboss, etc...)
    There is other to "import" photoshop plugins (so you can use any photoshop plugin in gimp)
    Other for "single mode window" (so floating windows are docked at corners, and when you minimize it all windows are grouped)
    Dont remember right now how much more (i used it a lot time ago but i returned to photoshop) but there are 4 or 5 gimp plugins that are a "must have" and makes gimp to work pretty similar than photoshop
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    Berion likes this.
  13. 1,528
    1,321
    272
    Berion

    Berion Developer

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    rom0:/
    I know that pngquant reducing colours, and that's exactly why I'm using it. ^^ Because properly handle transparent in 8bit images with super fast and easy use.

    About hex ordering: thanks for the info. I never bother myself to investigate it as I just state with trust to libpng implementations.

    About RCO: I also didn't know that. It looks like it's they internal tool for image manipulation across all the platforms. I wish we could one day have the latest version with all the configs...

    Yeah, CC is also not for me but I disagree about price. It's in summary cheaper than full price of i.e latest CS if consider i.e 3 years of usage and updates.

    Adobe have monopoly so they doesn't care about it. :( Maybe Affinity break it one day.

    Gimp is ok, but the GUI is horrible. Even with configs making it similar to PS, yet still options are in bad places and bad named. IMHO.
     

Share This Page