PSX games save data. PKG or BIN?

Discussion in 'General PS3 Discussion' started by Neal Cullum, Oct 9, 2017.

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    Neal Cullum

    Neal Cullum New Member

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    Yeah you're right, it is just PSone Classics that have the built in change disc feature. Most of the games i want are PSone Classics but some games that are multi-disc like Galerians ain't PSone Classic so i would have to make a package out of the discs.
    I have tried using Webman Mod and Multiman and i still have issues with it. The only way i have gotten round to making it work is changing the save file extension from VM1 to VM2 etc for it to load up on next disc. It's a pain though having to keep editing the save files. I've never used IRIS method before, wonder if i can use IRIS while having REBUG installed.
     
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    Joonie

    Joonie Developer

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    Instead of changing file extension, how about re-assigning your memory card from VM1 to VM2? I think this will be easier.

    I haven't tried IRIS for a while, it used to work fine as long as COBRA was disabled long time ago, it may not work anymore due to changes to the latest MAMBA,
     
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    Neal Cullum

    Neal Cullum New Member

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    I didn't think of changing the memory card lol. If it did work then wonder if it will work if there is a disc 3? Would it change to VM3? I thought that there was only 2 options to assign Virtual memory card, VM1 and VM2.
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    no, vm1 is for psx game saves; vm2 is for ps2 (I have a tutorial on injecting saves for either :-p). I don't know if it's different with pkg'd games or bin/cue games though, but that's the way it's set up with the virtual memory cards here:

    Code:
    dev_hdd0/savedata/vmc
    that's the location for saved data for disc-based games. it may be different with those other two versions. vm3 is wrong though.

    edit: I think vm2 might be right for bin/cue games since it's like memory card 1 and 2, but it's confusing to have it setup that way since vm2 on the system refers to the ps2 memory card. I can't recall if u can only have one memory card each or not though. I think the extension is all that remains the same, but the memory card name can be modified. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 7:09 AM
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    sandungas

    sandungas Developer

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    Yes, VM1 is a raw PS1 memory card, exactly the same than if you attach some kind of programmer to a real PS1 memory card and take a dump of his contents with a PC
    VM2 is the same concept but for PS2 (so it can be said is a "PS2 memory card raw dump")
    VM3 doesnt exists

    The problem with this VM1 VM2 formats is they manages the savegames in "blocks"... remember in a real PS1 and PS2 you could delete individual gamesaves inside the memory card ?, the consoles had a menu for that where you can delete a single "block" or any other block to empty them. In the PS3 you can do this too, they wanted to have this function in it
    And additionally in this old formats (VM1 and VM2 in PS3) you can "export" individual saves to USB (by clicking triangle over the "block"---> export)... and when doing this export to USB are converted to another different format compatible with PSP (and PSvita i guess). This exported formats should be considered "individual savegames" (are not a whole memory card)
    Also, it allows to have savegames from different games inside the same VM1 or VM2 because everything is managed as savedata "blocks"

    But in "netemu" versions (the emulators used for "PS1 classics" and "PS2 classics") you cant do any of this because it uses entire memory cards, so it needs a whole memory card for every game
    It seems the "netemu" versions doesnt supports VM1 and VM2 formats (and i doubt they are going to support them ever by any hack)

    I understand that they wanted to keep retrocompatibility with previous formats (real memory cards because the emulator is emulating a real PS1 or PS2 at logic level so the peripheral support works the same as if it was a real PS1 or PS2 console), and the memory card adapter, and other consoles (all the export/import formats related with PSP and PSvita), but is a huge mess, lol

    Btw, the tool joonie mentioned is this one http://www.psx-place.com/threads/ps...-cdda-multi-disc-support-by-most-hated.10031/
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    I thought I did. in my tutorial on transferring saves, it shows u how to transfer game saves between the vm1 and bin/cue games. I also have a second tutorial about ps2 classics that show u how to transfer saves from decrypted vm2 to encrypted vme. it should be the same process for psx. I'm not sure of the format for encrypted saves there or at least net saves. (r they encrypted?)

    edit: the second tutorial has u importing from a ps2, so the same should apply for vm2. and, then vm1?
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Developer

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    I have lot of doubts about the savedata formats used by the "netemu" versions of the PS1/PS2 emulators, when i was looking at this (and trying to write a page on wiki for savegames stuff) i focused in VM1 and VM2, are the oldest but allows for a lot of features

    Can you post some links to your manuals where you was talking about this ?, i would like to take a read about it to see if there is something missing or some mistake in wiki, thx :)
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    http://www.psx-place.com/threads/pinkys-ps3-tutorials.1546/

    the first is easy to find since it has psx in the title. the second has ps2 classics in the title, so a quick search should find both of 'em. :) I may be missing something myself. I did go through the tutorials again while I was writing them, but I may have missed something. ;)

    edit: oh, I just remembered. the tutorials r also in my sig. lol
     
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    Joonie

    Joonie Developer

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    Regarding vm1 and vm2, I only meant to say the slot (there's only two of them) not the virtual memory card type lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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    Berion

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    @sandungas Wow, a real titanic work! Thanks. I'll promise to read all in next week. Doing fast reconnaissance, I see that You missed many important tools for PS2 save and vmc managment like: PS2 Save Converter, PS2 Save Builder and MyMC which is successor of mymc (and mymc-g ;]). There was more apps but they are amateurs or just replaced in functionality by much modern tools.

    However there is something in this discussion which disturbing me: :) I was bought many PSX games on PSS and finished them all on OFW and some on CFW. All on CECHL04 if this have any meaning. Some of them are multidiscs and all using VMC from "dev_hdd0/savedata/vmc/*.VM1" and since this distribution package can be used to transfer games to PSP, it has also every needed file for PSP like i.e their PSX memory card images which is used only on PSP.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 2:15 PM
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    sandungas

    sandungas Developer

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    I guessed, but yeah, when talking about this savedata formats is needed to mention the exact file extensios because are a lot and very confusing, all them has similar names

    Ok, i been reading it, covers the import/export to PC of VM1 and VM2, i think this is covered in wiki too

    It was one of the first pages i made in wiki so i made some experiments with it and tryed to keep it clean and pretty (later abandoned), at the time it was made i decided to keep all formats together in the same page, but now we are restructring the emulation related pages in wiki and i decided to split it
    Btw, to be fair i need to say a good part of the PS1 info was made by ada (such the big table of the internal structure of VM1)

    About the tools mentioned in wiki (and short explains of how to export/import), i think there was a bunch of texts explaining the basics, but maybe now that the page has been splitted has been misplaced (or are common procedures that should appear on both PS1 and PS2 savedata pages)... i need to check that maybe i made some mistake when splitting
    If you want to add some more info about export/import or other ideas to add more info to the page then it will be better :)
    If you show me some links with tutorials where is explained i could try to wikify it (but i cant make much tests now)

    Then the "PS2 classics" are the only ones that contains two memory cards as part of the PKG game installation ?
    One thing that is confusing me is the arguments sent to the ps1 emulators listed here in wiki
    http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/PS1_Emulators#Arguments

    Note in ps1_emu.self and ps1_newemu.self are sent the location of the .VM1 files, also there is some chunk of code at bottom of the page that shows how multiman sends that arguments to the emus... it can be seen how it sends memory cards paths to ps1_netemu
    Not sure if that was a multiman hack... or the small table in wiki with the arguments used by netemu is wrong
     
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    Neal Cullum

    Neal Cullum New Member

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    Some of the discussions here are going way over my head! Too technical for my brain, I'm still learning new things how the PS3 works. I'll be keeping a tab on this discussion anyway. I'll check out the tool mentioned by Joonie. Handy for multi disc non-psone classics hopefully.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Developer

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    Berion

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    • PKGs with PSX games have vmc (*.VMP?) but it is used for saving/loading only on real PSP (maybe because PS3 offering export those games to PSP, as I remember there are also KEYS.BIN which PS3 don't using (instead it generates standard .rif for activation), so that's conclusion IMO have sense).
    • PKGs with PS2 games have encrypted (?) vmc (*.vme?) and it's used by PS3. I'm not sure about this line because I have never bought any PS2 game from PSS.
    • PSX disc games uses *.VM1
    • PS2 disc games uses *.VM2
    • PSX games from PSS using *.VM1
    • PS2 games from PSS probably using only *.vme
    That is the reason why I'm confused after reading this topic because I have never any problems with finding memory cards by games (of course after assigning chosen one in XMB) and any problems with finding save from the same vmc by multidisc games.

    Also author of this tpic state that he loaded PSX save in PSX games from *.VM2 which is... impossible. PS2 offering storing saves on MC for PS2 but not let games to read it by virtualized PSX. So probably this is similar on PS3 which have some similar fw as real PS2 (need to be check: does XMB can view PSX saves on *.VM2?).

    I have to small brain for this. ^^

    - - -

    PS: I have made mistake: not "MyMC" but "DualMyMC". And speaking about tools: if You listed most important apps for PSX save/vmc management, so it's good idea IMO for doing the same with PS2. Summarize, there are four such apps which are worth to mention (all have unique features and have GUI). I can give link to the tutorials but they are in Polish (and automatic translators don't handling Slavic languages properly).
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    @Berion , u r correct. the encrypted ps2 cards r named .vme.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Developer

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    I been reading a lot the last days about all this formats, i realized about some details, did learn others, and also reminded some i forgot, lol... but additionally i have a big mess too with all this formats

    What you said is right i think, that .VMP files (whole cards that comes in pairs) inside the "PS1 classics" are there because the game is really a "PS1 classic" (for PSP)... with this i mean this games has not been "repacked" by sony for the PS3, at least not the contents of the PKG... the files inside it are exactly the same ones used by a PSP
    Actually, this VMP files are not used in PS3 at all, not when running the game, and not to savedata on them, and not for export to USB... the reason why are there is because when you download the game to PS3 initially appears inside a "preinstall" bubble, at that point you can transfer the game to a PSP (registered and connected to the PS3 by an USB cable). I guess this could work in the same way with a psvita

    When you export ps1 savedata (from the memory card utility) the individual savedata "slots" are converted to the .PSV format
    This format is a bit special.... because is also used by ps2 savedata (only the ps2 savedata from the memory card utility)
    Is a container... but is common for both PS1 and PS2... i think this is the initial format since firmware 1.00 used for ps3<--->ps3 savedata sharing
    I guess PSV is supported by other sony consoles (probably PSP or PSVita) but im not sure

    Sure, it could be nice to have some info about how to use other tools, if you tell me the names of them i can add a list in wiki, this is a good start point to keep a record of them and as a reminder :)


    ----------
    Btw, returning to what we was talking at beginning about the problem with multidisc ps1 games (working under ps1_netemu.self but booted by a backup manager)...
    I think the culprit is this file: http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/PS1_Emulation_enviroments_in_PS3_firmware#CONFIG

    It seems either ps1_newemu.self or/and ps1_netemu.self... creates/loads that CONFIG file

    In it you can see there is some information related with the disc count... and disc number
    Actually, this information is supposed to be taken (as a copy for easyer and faster access) from the file format used by the "PS1 classics" to package the ISO that contains
    You know... in the msot deepth of a "PS1 classics" there is an iso, but around it there are other files (one of them has this info), container layers and levels, etc... is a bit unnefficient and a bit messy
    What the emulator seems to do is to read that information from the game files... and then it creates that CONFIG file
    Note the CONFIG file is created/loaded in USRDIR... i guess the option that appears inside "xmb in-game menu" to swap disc is reading the info directly from the CONFIG file :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017 at 2:51 PM
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    Berion

    Berion Developer

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    Yes, a container. Quite good but for PSX saves there is no need to any containers and in PS2 case the better is PSU. But of course PSV is official and we can expect that it will be supported in future on future devices.

    As I remember, PSV are signed by constant keys so it's works on any PS3. And only PS3. ;) PSP don't exporting any saves, it's just using *.vmp per game. I have zero knowledge about PSV because I didn't buy anything for this console from PSS. However, *if* utilize PSX emu by PSP emu (inception! ;]) it follow the PSP rules here I think.

    BTW: Sony made stupid implementation. Console check the file name, if it doesn't match to filename written in header, it will be displayed as broken and refuse to import. Unnecessary dick move.

    I'll send You a PM. Would You accept PDF (I don't want infect You, ;p just have corrected and cleaned version of my tutorials which we can found on cdrinfo.pl, only in offline form)?

    Games only looking specific ID in the psx mc "fs" card. All discs (per title of course) using the same.

    For my logic, all possible parrams doesn't matter as there is only one Memory Card assigned (or two, doesn't remember if XMB let user to mount more than one at once) and in PSX case it's always *.VM1.

    Anyway, this can be checked easily in Parasite Eve which offering save at the end of disc one in Subway (next screen is Disc 2), and Chrono Cross when player first time enter to Dead Sea after using Masamune (there are saves for it). No fights and no anything demand of knowing game mechanics.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017 at 6:28 PM
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