PS3 At what temp does SYSCON speed fan up and down

Discussion in 'General PS3 Discussion' started by Cosmic-R, Jul 5, 2019.

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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    like the title says at what temp does SYSCON decides to speed the fan up and at what tempereature does SYSCON decides to speed the fan back down, am asking because my 3000 doesn't speed the fan back down unless i remover the top cover off and if you're wondering it probably does but i cant hear it actually my ps3 speeds the fan up to the 1st speed thats actually loud (slightly louder than a early PS2 fat with the expansion bay on) and thats only on GTA V from what i've tested so far, after about 40 min of driving around from a coldboot (as in console as been turned off for at least 12 hrs) any help is appreciated
     
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    atreyu187

    atreyu187 Old Hunter Moderator

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    Well GTAV is one of the most stressful games on the PS3 hardware. It's supposed to kick on at 70+ degrees but it doesn't seem to work all the time. I find it best to set the fan speed at a constant speed as it keeps the system cooler thus slowing hardware degrading and makes the thermal paste not dry as quickly. It also stops webMAM mod from causing black screen issues
     
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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    thanks for the fast reply yes GTAV is the most demanding game i own 2nd most would be GT6 but that one takes like 1hr or 2 to make the fan loud, Skyrim doesnt even seem to make the PS3 run all that hot.
    unfortunatedly Webman and the like arent an option for this console since i would like to keep it as clean as possible (my main account trophies etc...) and also beceause i would like to buy a fully CFW compatible PS3 in the future anyways.
    But i do have a way of checking temps on OFW even if it isnt to efficient because it usually never finds the offsets and or crashes the PS3 (Ps3 xploit template has a preset for cell and rsx temps) but am thankful having that than nothing.

    so i would like to ask someone that can run their console on SYSCON settings and check temps at all times preferably a 25xx or a 30xx console (any other model is fine too) and what temps does your fan speed up and and what temps it speeds down.
     
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    pinky Retired Developer

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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    i was thinking abot that the other day and i tought that maybe now that hen is available for the whole spectrum of ps3 models maybe that table could be completed? also if i read that table correctly the higher the fan speeds the higher temps it allows ? at least for the 25xx ones.

    the thing is i dont even know wich fan speed my ps3 is getting to all i know is that is a bit louder than a early fat ps2 with expansion bay on. in other words the very first one thats actually loud and can be heard without getting your ear close to the console
    i've just remembered that at the highest SYSCON speed my ps3 has gotten and after idling on XMB for a few minutes with a static theme ps3 xploit template said cell and rsx where somewhere about mid to low 50s but still wouldnt speed down the fan but if i were to remover the top cover off it would speed down within a minute or two or atleast it did last time i tried it
     
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    atreyu187

    atreyu187 Old Hunter Moderator

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    Sony has it to come on above 69 degrees supposedly but as far as I know it never really gets above 30% which doesn't do much at all. Been using webMAN with my 3001 and no issues. There hasn't been any bans from HAN/HEN use as it's nothing permanent. In fact my fan speed stays adjusted even when HEN isn't enabled after setting the speed once. Sony has no way of telling your fan speeds and if HEN isn't enabled there is no risk factor. But that's up to you and it shouldn't stay that high unless you need to reapply the thermal paste anyway. Good luck hope you find what you need in the wiki
     
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    pinky

    pinky Retired Developer

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    I wouldn't worry about it. I mean it wouldn't be fun to play games if all you're doing is worrying about the fan. that's how it was with the xbox 360 and its rrod. a lot of people didn't want that sort of stress, so they either sold their system or never bought one.
     
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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    i was just curious more than anything (i tend to watch and read stuff just for the sake of learning even if im never going to do it like e3 flasher, reballing, reflow, hen installation, han install etc) this ps3 has never given me an overheat warning and i know judging by the fan test mode that it has more fan speeds available i just did maintenance on it last monday and i even took pictures of how the thermal paste was and how i reaplied it for reference, i was just wondering why it just gets stuck at that fan speed
    EDIT
    so judging by atreyu's post saying it comes at about 69 degrees C i would guess my ps3 is running somewhere between mid to high 60s ? because it never ever gets a higher fan speed and it has been like that for over a year now even if i played GTA online blowing up vehicles all day.
    could any of you do me a favor if someone could tell me what that SYSCON fan speed am describing is in percentage and tell me what idle xmb temps you get with it and if you have a dynamic theme, static, waves with or without sparks and maybe that way i could gauge how good or bad my ps3's cooling is
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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    don't know, you'd have to ask sony. I guess they figured that if the fans were really loud people would think that something was wrong with the system.
     
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    snkplkn

    snkplkn Member

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    Nobody knows more about this topic than @sandungas

    As per my knowledge, Syscon does almost nothing to control fan speed and specially useless in old fat models with decayed thermal pastes under IHS.

    My CPU was 84c and RSX at 72c and my syscon was barely running (i suspect it was 30%) at which its not even audible. Syscon is made to run at silent profile. Not to control Temps. How funny is that?!

    The key thing is Syscon doesn't have as many gears or stepping speeds to maintain temps as custom fan control utility like webman.

    For eg In custom FCU automatic/payload mode. The fan will start with higher minimum speed. Then it will change gears and step up fan speed as Temp touch 60C. Then it will change gears when Temp touch 65c. Then it will change gear when Temp touches 70c. At 70c, FCU will be in high gear and fight Temps very aggressively. At 75C it will reach max speed. I may not be accurate on exact Temp gears, but you get the idea. Custom fan control apps use wide range of speeds and higher speeds to tackle overheating.

    As far as noise is concerned, i personally can't hear anything below 43%. Anything below 50% is barely audible. Anything above 60% is audible and really straining the fan.
     
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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    i've just checked again cell and rsx temps at whatever fan speed the 1st loud one is with ps3 exploitation tutorial template 0.2.3 (when i first checked it shortly after quitting a game cell at at high 50s and rsx low 60s 62 or 63 i belive it was)

    after a few minutes it will settle at cell 54c and rsx 55c
    it wont go any lower than that

    i just dont know how much cooler it wants to get to speed the fan down since thats whats supposed to happen i remember it did once but a long time ago and a friend's fat ps3 used to speed down the fan while in game menu.

    so i really have no idea what the syscon or whatever controls the fan speed wants
     
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    Cypher_CG89 Senior Member

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    Between 50 - 56*C is what any PS3 should be idling at, to get it lower than that would require a fan speen of 38% + so these temps are more or less spot on for idling on the XMB.

    Again these are ideal temps for game play. So all in all I wouldn't be worring about temps when they are like this. These are quite good temps for just SYSCON temp control, they are more or less the same as my CECH4003A SuperSlim that also use's nothing but SYSCON as it is not hacked with anything.

    One thing I have seen some people do is a full manual fan control hard mod of the PS3, where they take all controll of the fan away from the PS3 and use a variable current switch to manaully control the fan speed with and extrnal switch.

    The other option is to install a PS3 water cooling unit for each the CELL and RSX which will defo keeps them temps well down. The only downside to this is it £25 each for a water heatsink for the CELL and RSX as you only get one, then you have to buy the pump, tank and controller as well so it would cost about £100 to do a full water colling conversion of a PS3.

    Maybe a bit extreme for some people but would keep the tmeps well down no matter what you were doing. If you want to look into that its called "Alpha Cool PS3 " and it can be found on amazon.
     
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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    the thing is i dont even know what fan speed the ps3 is running am on full OFW

    these arent gameplay temps those were at least 30 seconds after quitting gameplay, waiting web browser to load loading ps3 exploit tutorial template, selecting chain preset and and hoping it wouldnt fail or crash the console so by the time i got those reading it might have been 1:30 to 2 min at least before i even got the first reading


    so i tried to record a video with the fan audible but i had a hard time could barely be heard on video (its louder in person) can be heard from a meter or two a way but not so loud that is annoying, the fan speed to guess is the high pitched noise heard in the video, if the fan speed can be known from that video then i could guess how good or bad my ps3 is cooling. (based on the idle xmb temps)

    also thats why i asked the initial question at which temp does SYSCON speed up the fan so that way i would know which peak temps am getting, altough i would still like to know why it isnt speeding it down
     
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    umart666 Senior Member

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    probably paste under cell IHS is degraded and temps are keeping your fan speed up high even 'idle' (ps3 is rarely truly idle,animation and various tasks in the background especially after boot are keeping some load on your system).only solution is delid and getting really good thermal compound between chip and IHS.

    other than that if RSX temp is good you can,as instructed find max tolerable fan speed and set it manually,for ps3 RSX temps are crucial as anything beyound 68c on it is actively killing your console,cell is far more durable and can whitstand even 80+.
     
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    Cypher_CG89 Senior Member

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    What...? No it doesn't. 80*C+ on the RSX will start to damage it, but you don't want it to get anywhere near than anyways, so if your RSX is going into the high 70's then you should be worried. The CELL can withstand higher temps than that even as its an IBM server grade CPU.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    The PS3 doesnt decreases speeds instantly. what it does is to start some kind of "time counter" and when the time has been passed out is when it decreases speeds

    Is a mechanism made on purpose to reduce the total amount of fan speed changes and to bypass the heat peaks that happens inside games... this indirectly decreases the noise annoyances because the result is the fan speeds doesnt changes so frequently

    Is an smart and pretty cool trick (pun intended) ;)
     
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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    i honestly doubt it is that bad i would be getting loud fan speeds even at idle on xmb (so far only gtav gets the fan loud within an hour of the games i own if i dont boot any game it will stay quiet) and from what i've seen its usually on of the 2 that goes bad first and there would be massive difference in temps between cell and rsx wich am not getting at least on the xmb

    and judging by what the ps3 dev wiki says on thermals and the 25xx asssuming it has a similar cooling profile to the 30xxx i should be getting peaks of high 60s low 70s in-game? wich as far as i know is perfectly safe and its not worth the risk of deliding to a otherwise perfectly working console

    yes, but for my ps3 even an hour sitting in xmb after quitting a game doesnt seem to be enough but removing top cover off will speed it down within 2 or 3 minutes
    also when i remove the top cover off the pitch of the sound the fan makes is lower kinda like when u have a vacuum cleaner and u cover the hose off completely and the sound motor in the vacuum pitchs up.

    so i think its related to both a time countdown and maybe expecting low enough temps i just dont know how low i cant find any info online other than whats on the ps3 dev wiki about thermal and that one is incomplete and i still find the info inconclusive
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Yes, the CECH-30xx probably have the same fan profile than CECH-25xx... but maybe not because they reduced the diameter of the fan
    My understanding is a change so significativelly like reducing the fan diameter should force them to "readjust" the fan profile... but maye they did not... we cant be sure because there is no info from CECH-30xx setings in the table in wiki

    Btw, the values of the table in wiki are not inteded to be used as the idealistical "pattern" all PS3's should follow
    The reason for that is because the assembly in between IHS and heatsink could vary, and the thermal paste could vary too... the table doesnt cares about that, actually you can see there is a row of the table with a PS3 fat that had overheat problems

    What the table shows... is the relationship in between the exact temperature value that "triggers" the next fan speed
    That values are always constant, and the speed changes happens always at the same exact values

    Check again, and if you really want to see the differences keep in mind you need to be very picky with the small details

    The changes to increase speeds happens inmediatly... but when the temperature is decreasing the speed doesnt changes instantly... this is what made you create this thread right ?, because is a bit "weird"

    The way how it works is long to explain and it involves a few speculation from my side, i dont want to write a wall of text with innacuracies so i prefer to explain it in short...

    The speed only decreases after a time has been passed
    That time depends of the temperature you had before it started decreasing

    E.g. if you was at very high temperature... then the speed will take more time to decrease.. based in my meassures i can say it could be as long as 30 minutes or even more
     
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    Cosmic-R

    Cosmic-R Member

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    yes but doesnt the 30xx fan have more blades than the one found on earlier slims maybe that helps get back a bit of air movement capacity that was lost ? and if both have the same fan profile and the 30xx coling was worse wouldnt the 30xx run trough its fan speeds quicker ?

    also now that hen is available maybe that could be used to complete the table of the whole range of ps3 models ?

    thats exaclty what i would like to know what is the temp that triggers the next one so i could know what peak temps in.game am getting
    E.g. lets say by that table its 72c cell/rsx>fan speeds up but because the difference in speed from the previous one is quite noticeable it would have a few degrees to spare from the next fan steps and thats why in never goes past it.

    i think that maybe with my ps3 we could answer that just maybe if you could help me device a test, so mine even after an hour on xmb on idle with a static theme (no waves no sparks or anything) doesnt speed the fan down (idles cell 54 rsx 55 at minimum console vertical and all) but removing the top cover while the ps3 is on will within 2 or 3 minutes so i could be checking the temps executing the chain for cell/rsx temps from ps3 xploit tutorial template while its on idle on xmb and then after i remove the top cover off and see how much more it cools down and how loong it took?

    and if anyone reading this is wondering why i just dont HEN and do it myself its because am too paranoid of a ban to risk it and would like to have the peace of mind that i will absolutely will not get one, and also because because i would like to get a CFW console in the future so i dont see the point of having a CFW and HEN console at the same time. also because i feel that this forum is like a hub for CFW users and knowledgeable people so i appreciate any help even if it is just guesses
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    The CECH-30xx have a fan with 8cm diameter... and the previous PS3 slims have a fan with 10cm diameter
    Initially if we only make our assumptions based on that we could think that the CECH-30xx is going to have a worse cooling than the previous PS3 slims... but is needed to consider also the weight of the heatsink metal block (and the amount, material, and size of the "fins" of the heatsink, also the copper pipes and his positions in the heatsink, etc...). Also is needed to consider if there are some components that was upgraded and generates less heat... an obvious component that was always improved in every revisions is the PSU, newer PS3 models have less watts, thats good because the PSU generates less heat also the electricity bill is smaller, heheh

    Anyway... i dont know if CECH-30xx have a worst cooling than previous PS3 slims, my previous comment was not implying that (because im not really sure), but my intuition tells me it does

    The reason why i mentioned the fan sizes is because i consider changing the fan size is a very important change, and at that point i guess the engineers had to "readjust" the fan profiles, but this is just a theory intended to imagine at wich point (or in other words, in which PS3 model) sony changed the fan profiles. Based on the fan size we have 4 groups:

    -all the PS3 fats with a fan of 14cm
    -the PS3 slims (not included CECH-30xx) with fans of 10cm
    -the CECH-30xx with a fan of 8cm
    -all the superslims with a fan of 7.5cm

    Another theory... is the fan profiles changed "by syscon revision"... see this table
    https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Components
    There are 5 series (or 5 syscon families)... some of them could use the same fan profiles

    And other theory is they changed it a bit randomly... in other words they was able to change fan profiles for every new PS3 model and they did it just when they considered it convenient

    We dont know which theory is the correct... but is one of them (almost for sure) :P
    People doesnt cares, the table has been there (made by me btw) since months ago waiting for people in CFW to post his test results, i had to beg in irc channels to friends to make the test to help me and the only thing i achieved is what you can see in the actual table

    If you are in OFW is very hard to make the tests, the only thing you can do is:
    1) turn off the PS3 for several hours to allow it to return to ambient temperature
    2) turn on the PS3, and stick your ear to the top plastic shell
    3) at boot you are going to hear a couple of seconds initially with a fast speed... this doesnt counts (ignore it)
    4) after that you are going to enter in the sequence that appears in the table in wiki

    Everytime you hear the fan changes speed is like "one step up" (like in a stairway)
    if you stay in idle in XMB (either with the wave/sparks animation enabled or disabled) is going to need around 20 minutes to reach an stable temperature... it should be something around 65º
    But you are in OFW, so you cant see the real temperature :/
    Also, is very easy for you to miss one of the initial speed changes, because the lower values of the table are low speeds and the speed diffrences are small too

    With a program like irisman (in the fan control screen of it, in settings screens) you can see the values that appears on the table.... on real time
    This is what i used to make the tests btw.... you just need to open irisman... enter in that screen and sit in front of a PC with a "new text document.txt" ready to take notes of what you see on the irisman screen :)

    Is tricky... if at some point you do, most probably you are going to need to repeat the test just for confirmation, to be sure you are not missing one of the "speed steps" with lower values

    Also... remember is needed to start the test from ambient (this is a pita because is needed to wait some hours)... so the best way to do it is to prepare the PS3 at night... go to sleep and make the test at the next day

    The way how the PS3 reduces fan speeds is tricky to understand, i made some test trying to get it but this is anoter stuff where is needed to speculate a bit

    The most important thing needed to know is if is made by hardware or by software

    By hardware i mean... the syscon could have internal circuits designed to deal with fan control in a "automated" way... without need to use any settings... sometimes this kind of things can be configured with just some resistors "here and there"... actually you can create timers just with hardware components that doesnt needs any "byte" of data to work

    By software i mean.... the syscon is a processor, it has instructions, it can run code, and it have a data storage area where can be stored settings for it (like a fan profile table, this is an easter egg i been interested in catching since some years ago, hehhehe)

    At this point i dont really know if is made by software or by hardware... but based on my tests i can say the values are always the same... with a huge accuracy, so they seems to be very well defined somewhere

    ----------
    We can think in this as an "algorithm" in general... an algorithm is a sequence of actions very well defined... usually the word algorithm is used for programming languages, but can be applyed to a lot of things, like:
    1) i wake up at the morning
    2) i rub my eyes
    3) if i have time i turn on tv and watch tv some minutes in the bed
    3.2) else if i have no time i wake up fast and go to the bath
    etc... XD

    The point is... the PS3 is controlling the fan with an "algorithm" (either software or hardware i dont know)
    When the temperature is increasing is a lot more straightforward and doesnt seems to be an algorithm
    But when the temperature is decreasing that algorithm is taking in consideration some variables, like:
    -a timer
    -the previous temperature and the previous speed (to compare, the only way to know if you are going up or down is keeping a record of the previous "state" right ?)
    -whatever... who knows

    Incase is software... this is a software function, and is going to be tricky to imagine what is doing exactly... are needed lot of tests and lot of hours with a timer and taking notes of everything... later try to write a function that matches
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019

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