PS2 I'm being driven insane... (OPL with HDD)

Discussion in 'Open PS2 Loader (OPL)' started by Deli295, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    I think we can agree on this tl;dr:
    • DMA-modes probably make it better on many but likely not all HDDs/SSDs.
    • Slower or older (and thus probably slower) HDDs often work fine and thus are an alternative!

    (Apart from the tl;dr)
    Some test-results (from some months ago):
    • All my 3.5"-IDE-HDDs work fine, on a SONY-NWA... (6GB up to 500GB)
    • A 2.5" 250GB and a 320GB SATA-HDD works without issues on the SATA/Gamestar-Adapter, but I had to use Mode 1 and/or a DMA-mode on another 320GB-2.5" SATA-HDD.
    • All of the 2.5" HDDs worked fine on the IDE-Adapter, using a cheap IDE2SATA-Converter. The interesting thing is, that I read a similar report which was based on the cheap adapter which is build in (mine wasn't, but just for PC) - from bitfunx vs. the original from maxdiypower - and the maxdiypower had the issue and the cheap one didn't... (possibly due to it being less performant)
    • The 1TB HDD had issues on a Bitfunx HDD-adapter (Rev 2.2 or 2.3, where most of it is combined on one PCB, instead of the exchangeable board which can be used in a SONY-NWA). UDMA1 often worked well, so I haven't had to use the Multi Word-DMA-modes (like others reported). The 1TB-SATA-HDD is quite old Btw.! It is from a Buffalo Linkstation Live v3 (LS-CHLv2/3)!
    • A 2TB SATA HDD I tried needed MDMA quite often.
    • The 1TB 2.5" SSD had varying results. Some just worked and some needed varying (DMA-)modes...
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    Peppe90 likes this.
  2. 745
    364
    97
    Peppe90

    Peppe90 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    So with SSD you need to lower DMA on certain games that work in UDMA 4 with a mechanic HDD. Interesting.
    I've only mechanic HDD experience but I used many different kind (IDE/SATA, 5400/7200 rpm, 3,5"/2,5", different sizes, etc) and I always set games with the same DMA settings.

    As for reading speed HDLoader is performant as OPL (setting UDMA 4). Theoretically HDLoader could be ever more performant since it support up to UDMA 6. I used this speed many times but never made a comparison to see if it can actually makes the Ps2 to read faster than on UDMA 4. I think I'll do this test.
     
  3. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    At least on the IDE-Adapter or when the speed is kind of limited Hardware-wise.
    The 1TB and the 2TB 3.5" HDDs also had varying DMA-modes... The 2TB needed M(W)DMA-mode, sometimes, where the 1TB worked with UDMA-modes (ranging from 1 to 4).
    The SSD also sometimes didn't need a change to game-settings at all and it worked (where an HDD needed another transfer-mode)!

    This only worked for me on some games and setups, but not all.

    First off... We already had that!
    Performance does(/is) NOT EQUAL (to) bandwidth!
    If OPL needs less of the systems resources (like RAM and processing-time) for the same kind of task and in a shorter time, it is more performant...

    Have you ever tried both (OPL vs. HDL) with the same settings (regarding the transfer-mode [DMA-modes]) and compared it?

    It doesn't matter if the software could support it, when the hardware does not... I don't know, if and which adapter supports UDMA6...
    ...and... OPL did support that as well, but it was removed, AFAIR.

    Hm... That would be interesting as well, but doesn't really relate to OPL's 'little problem'.
     
    Peppe90 likes this.
  4. 745
    364
    97
    Peppe90

    Peppe90 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Gender:
    Male


    I never tested it with a chronometer… I never noticed a difference between HDL and OPL (playing in UDMA 4 with both) but it could be just game related. I'll check it with Shawn Palmer's pro snowboarding and some Others on which DMA different speeds are easilly to spot.


    It's just a curiosity. But most probable UDMA 5 and 6 don't improve the speed, otherwise OPL would have maintained them I think.
     
  5. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    Hm... I think the SONY-Adapter only supports max. UDMA4, but I don't know it for sure.

    The SATA-Adapter however might be able to use higher modes as well...
     
  6. 14
    3
    32
    Deli295

    Deli295 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    32
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi guys sorry for replying so late, I've been busy with college. I've tried many OPL revisions, Mode 1 and changing the DMA thing but nothing seems to be working properly. I guess the best thing I could do is get a genuine network adapter and use the SATA adapter from the generic one. Do you think that would cause any issues?
     
  7. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    The method you plan on doing, will only work if you have one of those SATA-Adapters where there is a separate SATA-Board connected via the same flex-cable and connection.

    There are SATA-Adapters out there however, which do not have a separate or compatible board!

    If you have one of these (like I have as well), you will need to get a mod-board for the Sony-Adapter, either from "maxdiypower" or one "from China" i.e. a Bitfunx-Adapter (which are usually also those which build the SATA-Adapters).
     
  8. 14
    3
    32
    Deli295

    Deli295 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    32
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, I opened it yesterday just out of curiosity and the SATA adapter is connected to a very cheap looking board with a flex cable, I guess I'll be fine.
     
  9. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    If it has the same size (the connector/flex-cable and possibly holes for screws), it should be fine, since they (BitfunX/GameStar) based their implementation partially on this clone of the original adapter.


    Another possibly "good news" for you is, that the Bitfunx-Adapter seems to be a bit less efficient than the maxdiypower-adapter and some other revisions of the GameStar&Bitfunx-adapters!

    How is that "good news"?
    Well... It actually might make the delays long enough for you, to use higher DMA-Modes on some games and possibly do not need to change it at all on some!

    It doesn't make that much of a difference on quite old OPL-Versions, but since ~700-800 OPL is kind of 'too fast'. I think it began during the streaming-implementation...
    It is technically good that it became so performant, but some games just can't cope with the speed and thus needs an extreme limitation on the 'data-input-speed' from the device.

    Maybe we need an "extreme read-speed-precision-mode"...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  10. 745
    364
    97
    Peppe90

    Peppe90 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    The SATA board on Clone adaptors (like GameStar ones) is identical to the Bitfunx or maxdiypower boards… just to the eye tough.

    You can perfectly connect it to the original Sony NA but it won't work.
     
    TnA likes this.
  11. 14
    3
    32
    Deli295

    Deli295 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    32
    Gender:
    Male
    But wouldn't it be the same as buying a SATA board on Aliexpress? I'm pretty sure people do that.
     
  12. 14
    3
    32
    Deli295

    Deli295 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    32
    Gender:
    Male
     
    TnA and Peppe90 like this.
  13. 745
    364
    97
    Peppe90

    Peppe90 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the sata boards from Clones are appositely made for communicate with their SATA main board only, not with the Sony NA board.
    At least it doesn't worked for me (using the sata board from GameStar adapters). I ended up buying BITFUNX boards and eventually a maxdiypower one (more compatible with my SATA III 2TB 2,5" HDD).

    Maybe the sata board from certain clones could work. Let us know when you'll try it.

    If I correctly understood he bought an apposite board for the Sony NA, he didn't remedied it from a clone NA.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
    TnA likes this.
  14. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    AFAIK (like I said before), some are compatible and the same like those sold separately, but not all!

    Like I said... On some boards it can not be taken off at all and where it can be exchanged, some are compatible and some are not (at least to my knowledge).
     
    Peppe90 likes this.
  15. 745
    364
    97
    Peppe90

    Peppe90 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2018
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting. It's a news for me, I thought no one could be compatible. Let's see how goes the @Deli295 test.
     
  16. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    I've never had a compatible one, but I certainly read about some people successfully swapping a board (@ps2-home.com AFAIR)!
     
  17. 1,207
    657
    222
    TnA

    TnA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany --> Saxony
    Errrrr... Double-post (again). Sorry!
     

Share This Page