PS3 My fat CECHE01 gave me a YLOD but it is working fine right after

Discussion in 'General PS3 Discussion' started by Gabriel2Silva, May 11, 2019.

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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    CECHE01 console, replaced its thermal paste 3 months ago for quality compound (CoolerMaster Mastergel Maker), cleaned up its insides, installed CFW and webman-MOD with a max temperature of 61ºC on both RSX and Cell. Fan goes loud but it never gets hot. It's up and running ever since and it never presented any kind of problem until today.

    I've played the hell out of it yesterday, then today I turned it on, only to be greeted with the YLOD. I turned it on, then it gave me a quick green light, like 2 seconds, then yellow, then blinking red light until I pressed the Power button again. Thing is, right after this happened, I took a deep, long breath and while I thought everything was dead and over, as I pressed the Power button once again it turned on NORMALLY. Normally, no issues, it turned on and booted to the XMB like nothing ever happened. WTF?

    Isn't the YLOD a major hardware problem? Stuff like BGA solder gone bad on the CPU/GPU and such. Why would it give me a random YLOD only to turn on normally right after?

    Right now the PS3 is on, up and running, and I'm afraid of turning it off again lol.

    Help me understand what just happened here or at least give me some words of hope. Thanks.
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    periodic ylod can happen. it's likely to happen again 'til it fails completely. yes, it's indicative of a hardware problem. changing thermal paste may fix it temporarily, but it's just that, temporary.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    This type of YLOD its a sign, it means your Capacitors, more precisely its the NEC/TOKIN Capacitors, which are responsabile for the power delivery on the RSX and CELL B/E, and these Capacitors are notorious for failure, no matter how much you take care of your PlayStation3 these Capacitors always fail with use,age and heat.

    Do not worry about the BGA, the BGA its fine, the BGA was always fine from the start, it only gets disjointed at 217ºC,a temperature which your PS3 will never reach,and the 90ºC threshold doesnt even make a dent in the non-lead solder BGA.

    I wouldnt worry about the capacitors just yet, but the longer you use the more frequent it will happen to a point,which the PS3 will never turn on again, or in ocasions it will turn,but it will shutoff, to remedy that,you will need to replace them with Tantalum Capacitors.

    I have a similar issue on my CECHC04, which i replaced the capacitors,and the PS3 holds pretty well, but you will need to replace them all,otherwise, if the others fail, you are forced to replace them all in order to boot the PS3 again.

    All Phat Models are prone to this issue, including the first 2000 Series Slim, on the 2100 and onwards Sony replaced these capacitors with proper Tantalum Capacitors.

    The first assumption when a YLOD occurs, people tend to jump the gun, on the BGA,but the problem is,that the BGA itself its fine, and they wonder why reballing works, thats because when you are reballing the Chip, you are heating the NEC capacitors, and they love heat, and return back to normal, the problem is, it might last a year,maybe more,but eventaly it will come back.

    Reballing only works, when a Faulty RSX needs to be replaced, or the BGA its corroded due to humidity or water-damage,in all other ocasions its a waste of money.

    I know i will get pitchforks and torches in this post,but the truth has to be told, people saw that reballing works, and created this bubble that if anyone says otherwise they will not accept it, reballing works but not for the reason they think it does :)
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    This gives me some hope. It makes sense for it not to be a BGA related problem - the console itself has a max temperature of 60ºC setup by webman-MOD, that's incredibly low if you ask me. My Super Slim can reach 75ºC idling on the XMB, lol, so I think it is normal for the PS3 to reach very high temperatures and to be OK with it.

    I was playing since I made this post, paused to get something to eat and now came back, it is still up and running with no YLOD nor any other problem. It's like nothing happened. I'm no expert at this but I think that if it was a BGA problem then it would be dead by now. I know BGA related problems can be unpredictable but what you're saying makes perfect sense to me.

    Do you have the exact specifications on these capacitors? Are they hard to replace? I have no problem with soldering except when it comes to SMD parts.

    Thanks for giving me hope :D
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    68 degrees is suggested. it doesn't surprise me that the super slim runs hotter, since it's more compact. one of the problems with heating on the ps3 is that it slowly heats up, but is abruptly shut down. I think that's the reason the ps4's fan continues to run after shutting down the system making cooling more gradual.

    I don't know what is indicative of hardware failure, but gpu failure usually results in graphical glitches, then freezing. I know on the 360 it's common to see a checkered board pattern with hardware failure.
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    Yeah, I have no artifacts when playing games, nothing out of the usual is happening. It's just that today I had a random YLOD while booting the PS3, and right after YLODding I've reset it and it worked just fine. It's working right now tbh, and I already left it cool down and turned it on again twice.

    I know about the abrupt shutdown thing, that's what makes the solder balls crack, I've read it somewhere. I just don't understand how or why my PS3 YLODdded randomly on startup, lol.

    Well, I guess I shouldn't be paranoid or anything. It's working, so let's keep it cool and safe. Hope it doesn't get recurrent or worse.

    Thanks for the insights!
     
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    pinky

    pinky Bitsiboo's Other Half Developer

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    not sure. the 360 can get a false rrod if the power cable isn't plugged in completely. it could be something like that.
     
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    umart666

    umart666 Member

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    changing caps with inexpensive soldering heatgun is a breeze,and any semi decent professional would do it really good and for cheap as it's a really easy task.

    good video on the subject:

     
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    xxxmarioxxx

    xxxmarioxxx Member

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    Can you explain how to replace these capacitors in details? I see some people replacing these caps on toshiba laptops, but in laptops the two positive terminals of the soldering pads are connected, so they just replace NEC caps with tantalum capacitors directly. However, in PS3, the two terminals of NEC caps are disconnected, and is connected internally by the NEC capacitor through an inductance, as shown in the circuit diagram.

    [​IMG]
    Can you show us how you replaced all capacitors? Thanks.
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    After playing for the whole night with no problems at all I've decided to stress it with a real heavy game while paying close attention to the temperatures.

    I've popped The Last of Us Blu-Ray disc and played through the prologue. Over 10~15 minutes of gameplay were enough for it to reach 90% fan speed (61ºC max temp on webman-MOD) and then finally shutting down by itself even though it didn't went above 61ºC. 61º on both CPU/GPU, 92% fan speed, the console turned itself off with blinking red lights and 3 beeps. I couldn't notice any yellow LED but I was looking at the TV when the crash happened so I can't tell for certain. The red LED kept blinking until I touched the Power button again, that's when it stopped, but didn't turned on imediatelly after, just stopped on a solid red like normal standby. I've pressed Power once again and it turned on normally like nothing ever happened.

    Now I'm really suspecting on those capacitors. This kind of thing shouldn't happen in the case of a BGA problem because temps were controlled and very low for Fat PS3 standards. Power usage must've been through the roof though, with almost maximum fan usage together with one of the most demanding PS3 games ever.

    Is the NEC/Tokin capacitors known for this kind of issue?

    Keep in mind that I can play other games (Like Monster Hunter Portable 3rd HD, a much more simple game) and while the temperatures still lock up on 61ºC it does NOT crash or show any kind of erratic behavior/malfunctioning. It happened for the first time while in-game on The Last of Us, a game which I've popped in exactly in order to test the console.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    The replacement its fairly easy, you need to remove the old NEC/TOKINs, and replace them with Tantalums, 470uF for the Phats, and thats if you want to leave a few NECs,but if you want to replace them all top and bottom, you need at least 32 pieces of 330uF at 2.5V, you need to solder them in a correct position, positive to positive and ground to ground, isolate them with electical tape,and you are golden.

    All the Phats and the 2000 Slims have this issue, and all can be resolved by simply a capacitor replacement, why do you think the later 2100 doesnt get YLOD, it never was a BGA issue, the solder used its the same across consoles, lead-free solder isnt prone to cracking like many say so, corrosion yes its possible, it was a power delivery issue from the get-go
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Yes, this issue, started with the TOSHIBA laptops, as i owned one, i know what i am trying to explain here. This issue was discovered like 3 or 4 years ago, and by the time my TOSHIBA gave me this issue, everyone was saying the same thing, BGA issue.

    Anyway, back to the topic, yes the NEC/TOKINs have an internal jumper, but the PS3 mainboard also has a internal trace that allow the positive current to pass through,if you look closely near the Capacitors, you see a trace that goes around them, thats the trace that allows the current to pass through to the RSX or CELL respectively.

    The order of soldering its fairly easy, you just need to connect the positive side to the ground side, and vice versa, solder 4, 470uF 2.5V tantalums for each NEC/TOKIN, i advise to remove the NEC first, clean the traces and solder the tantalums.

    In the picture the Red its positive, and blue its ground.

    Take any PlayStation3 with YLOD, as long its a Phat or a 2000 Slim and this procedure will work.


    2ilki88.jpg
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Not all games react the same, the same was with my CECHC04 with the original NEC/TOKINs, some games would shutdown immediately, and others the PS3 could play it around the clock without any problem.

    This week i should get brand new capacitors in the mail, but i wont work on the unit until the weekend, Design work its killing my schedual for this last 2 weeks, once i get it working, ill update the post, or maybe do a Tutorial on how to work them properly :)
     
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    snkplkn

    snkplkn Member

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    Slightly off topic guys. Does playing with Blu-Ray disc cause more heat than playing same game installed on hard drive (multiman)?

    I just observed that playing games from Blu Ray pushes fans a little harder compared to when i run the same games from internal hard drive.

    Regarding YLOD. I read that it can occur from bad PSU or bad power source as well.
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    I would be extremely grateful if you do so, especially because afaik CECHE and CECHC both share the same motherboard variation.

    I can speak Portuguese too (I'm Brazilian) and even though there's a lot of content about these TOKIN capacitors over here none of if is conclusive enough. Some people say we need two, other say we need four tantalums, some people say we need to do it with a soldering iron, others say we can do it with a heat gun. Etc.

    Thanks for all the help.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Yes, the CECHC and E both share the same motherboard variations, the COK-002 and COK-002W, it also works for the 001,but the procedures are the same.

    Once i finish, ill post a guide on how to execute the installation properly. About the NECs being removed with a heat-gun, ive seen a few lads commenting that heat-gun doesn't do a dent in the removal, you need a powerful Soldering Station to be able to melt the NECs to a point that you can remove it.

    You need 4 Tantalums for each NEC TOKIN, to replace the lost capacitance, each NEC has 1200uF for the Phats and 1000uF for the 2000 Slim, you need to have the same capacitance regarding the tantalums, if you are using a Phat, its 470uF x 4 = 1320uF, and don't worry about going overboard with the capacitance, it won't harm it,use at 2.5V,although i am getting 470uF rated at 6.3V, because i couldn't find them at 2.5V, although they are 6.3V as long as they are rated they will operate at a lower voltage, as its rated and not operating voltage.

    This guide will be made with basic tools found on a day to day basis, no need for crazy expensive tools, except for the soldering iron, the guide will be fully written in English, i can do a Portuguese guide as well, which i don't mind (and don't worry i don't use the translator) but i find it rather unnecessarily, and time consuming, as the demographic its English, so i keep it that way. :)

    Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    News Update: So today the capacitors arrived sooner than expected, and got the CECHC04 in working conditions again, as my schedule its quite tight this week, on this weekend or perhaps sooner,ill make a detailed guide on how to install Tantalum Capacitors properly, with detailed steps across all PS3 Models that include this type of issue, including your CECHE Model @Gabriel2Silva.
     
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    umart666

    umart666 Member

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    did you use heatgun or soldering iron?
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Soldering Iron, its better, i dont own a heatgun anyway, and heatgun can damage more than do any good. You can always have a clean solder with a proper soldering iron.
     
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    Fanhais

    Fanhais Member

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    the last of us crashes on ps3 60gb if nec tokin going bad ( i think from personal test on 60gb ) normally in down town in area after or before clicker attacks
     

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