PS2 doing a lot of noise and TV screen flickering after replacing cables

Discussion in 'Help & Support' started by Windows10User, Jul 18, 2019.

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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    576p is the most uncommon resolution,i saw it only on some early digital receivers,in analogue era consolea didn't had power to output that big of an resolution,480p isn't prevailing standard either...

    s video is quite enough for 480i and ps2,rgb is superior but in ntsc regions crt's usually didn't had them at all and you're limited to s video most of the time. (for example mid to late 90's trinitrons in ntsc regions don't have scart/rgb but do have s video,and don't have any digital processing so you'll get zero lag,no problems with deinterlacing,it will work with lightgun games and those tv's have really nice tube in them,and you won't pay premium because those models aren't sought after like high end late crt's).

    also,most of the time those tv's can be modded for scart/rgb.
     
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    jolek

    jolek Senior Member

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    PS2 unofficially supports 576p via integrated in OPL or standalone GSM. There is also 1080p but lets skip it...
    Some homebrew (SMS - Video\music player) also should have 576p res to choose.
    Normally PS2 should support 480i, 480p, 576i, 720p and 1080i.
    Most of these res runs at 60 Hz, except of 576i\p @50 Hz.
    There is currently no way to use 720i\p or 1080i @50 Hz on PS2
    Games that support 1080i are only upscaled to that resolution.
    I've never seen game with 720p support for that console.

    Most of PS2 NTSC games runs at 60\30 FPS, PAL at 25\50 FPS.

    Xbox supports 480i, 480p, 576i, NTSC models additionally 720p and 1080i.
    Here is a list of games with alternative display modes:
    https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3Wkn..._Xbox_games_with_alternate_display_modes.html.

    Probably 576p could be uncommon resolution, it may also be explain that YPbPr was an American thing...
    I don't know what went wrong, but IMHO both of these consoles should be able to support 576p normally.

    I've quite old DVD-Player that have an options to enable progressive scan (576p).
    PS3 should normally support 576p as other higher resolutions.
    Recently I've bough TV decoder which also have this V-mode.
     
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    Agrippa

    Agrippa Forum Noob

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    I am not saying about the rendering resolutions, but about the output ones. I am not an technician and I do not know why Sony recommended such crazy internal resolutions, probably as a hardware limitation. One thing for sure, it does not stand the test of time.

    About a 576p, nowadays it is as common as other HD resolutions, in order to maintain backwards compatibility. The HDMI specification does not support interlaced resolutions (with only one exception - 1080i).

    Those progressive SDTV modes were not used in any broadcasts. As I have written earlier, the main purpose of the 480p output was a telecine judder free playback. Here in Europe, the movies were just sped up by 4% to achieve 25 fps (actually it is still done for the TV broadcasts). There was no judder, only slightly, but noticeable, pitched up audio. To sum up, there were no mixed fields, just the two consecutive from the same frame. That's why a progressive input was not needed and only higher end TV sets had one.

    In fact, the best component signal to deliver is a RGB one, since it goes straight to the matrix without any conversion of Y Cb/Pb Cr/Pr values. All the YIQ/YUV/YPbPr/YCbCr color spaces were made for broadcasts to save up bandwidth and reduce information therefore.
     
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    sp193

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    It is very difficult to get Sony cables. Cables are also cables, unless you got really el-cheapo ones.

    The audio connections for component and composite are the same. You should notice that the video is less blurry.
    It's also only possible to use the progressive video modes with component cables.

    If you must buy cables, you probably should not use composite cables in 2019. Support for it is also getting obscure now.

    It's related to how the GS works and characteristics of analog CRT TVs. Game developers are not actually restricted to use a particular frame buffer resolution, but Sony recommended some that would work best.

    Analog video modes like NTSC/PAL can have an arbitrary number of dots encoded in a line, so the GS has a virtual width for NTSC & PAL of 2560. Widths like 256, 512 and 640 are factors of 2560.

    As for the 448px height for NTSC (512px for PAL), Sony wrote that not all TVs can display all 480 NTSC lines (576 for PAL) and it would result in a waste of GS memory.

    There could also be some relationship with how memory is paged in the GS, but I never really had a good understanding on this section of the manual.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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    atreyu187

    atreyu187 Retired Old Hunter Moderator

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    Normally I agreed with you but that just simply isn't the case. Some have bad connectors and some use low quality shielding resulting in varying degrees of video issues. Very few are made as "good" cables ATM when buying new cables. Most companies that make quality stuff quit caring about "older" systems.


    Didn't used to be the case since Sony used the same cable for many systems. The component cable worked for PS2 & PS3 but since being dropped for the PS4 it's getting harder to find quality PS2/3 cables. It shows by the insane cost of official cables now reaching $50+ USD.

    There are plenty of cheaper cables but with varying degrees of issues. I bought three of the exact same cables each one had issues. Banding on one while another had ghosting and the last one had static issue with the audio. They had varying reports with users as well. Some had great experience while others had many of the issues I faced.

    Even the pseudo-HDMI cables made by better companies like Pound have their faults. My HDMI port went out on my PS3 and I had to source component cables. While the composite are plentiful and cheap they simply suck with washed out colors. Wasn't long ago I could get official cables for a good price and descent third party cables for the system.

    Other older systems suffer this fate as well. Look at the OG Xbox. Their cables used to be pretty cheap but now they want upwards of $75+ for them and the third party cables be it component or the new "HDMI" cables have varying degrees of success. RetroVision makes good cables for our older systems at affordable prices. I'll happily pay $30 to get a good cable with a warranty over taking my chances to so-so no name cables.

    And let's not get started on the wretched multi-system cables. Getting a good cable for an "outdated" system gets harder to do by the day at a reasonable price when despite there being an abundance of them. Sellers simply charge to much for anything you can't go into a brick and mortar stores nowadays. While it shouldn't be hard to make a descent cable most cheap out on shielding or connectors. And those that don't charge high prices like Monster Cables. So to say most don't have issues is debatable unless you have a descent source that isn't trying to kill gamers.

    Don't know how it is everywhere else but in the US it is kinda a hard thing to do because of lack of quality control. Most don't care about return business aside from making you try out multiple cables of the same brand hoping they get it right. I will come back to Retrovision due to quality and not having to fight with getting a good cable.
     
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    sp193

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    Some, but not all.

    I'm actually a bit surprised that you can even get Sony cables today, since they haven't been used with a new console since the PS4's launch. Nevermind if it costs $100 or not. This is the reason why I don't think we should make Sony cables seem to be the only real option, since it's not applicable to everyone today.

    Personally, I haven't seen a genuine cable before. When I tried to get one in 2009 after upgrading from CRT to a widescreen LCD, I could only get 3rd party cables. But it worked okay.
    Granted, it's possibly because Singapore never seemed to be a priority market. Lots of PlayStation accessories never saw the light of day here.

    Either way, my point is that the Sony cable is now essentially a luxury item, being out of production. It's not that no other manufacturer can attain the necessary quality and compliance, but you need to find the right one. I'm sorry that you never found a good manufacturer, but it's just unfortunate that not all of them honestly tried to do a decent job.

    If Sony cables are certainly only the way to go, then isn't this logic no better than the other logic that Monster cables is the only way to go? The problem with the Monster cables argument wasn't only the price, but the logic that its performance was surely unparalleled.

    You should have stopped at the first one, IMO. It's clear that the manufacturer did not comply with standards.
     
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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    try local ads.i've found almost all of my cables that way pretty cheap.only cable i got online is scart av for ps2/ps3 as i only had offical sony one for ps1.never paid more than 10 dollars and that was for oficial component one (earlier one with logo).

    here in europe we have fortune to have some german brands that produced (in china) cables for all consoles and variations of decent quality without any major issues,and are pretty reliable and cheap.i have couple of those and all work same as official ones.
     
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    Windows10User

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    Will the picture quality get better if I use progressive scan and if so, do I have to use it in-game and how many games support it? And what about those games which don't support it and if I use it in PAL games (all of my games are PAL) will it actually decrease the picture quality? Anyway, I didn't notice a picture improvement after trading the composite cables for component ones. Should I buy component cables from HD Retrovision to see image improvements and not to have the screen blackouts? What do you mean with composite cables getting obscure? What should I do if I have no option but to buy ones? Which ones should I buy?

    EDIT: I don't remember if this happened with the composite cables but I have 4 black bars on the image: on the left of the game's image, on the right, upwards and below so the image doesn't fill the screen and if I zoom it on the TV's settings (it currently is 16:9) I can't see some game's image parts because it is too big and it doesn't fit the screen. This doesn't happen with the PS3.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    all that you described has more to do with the display rather than the console.especially if didn't notice the improvement over the composite cables.

    if you have 20-30 bucks and can get stuff from online i'd either try to get proper component cable (official,monster,hama...) secondhand or new retrovision and from similar trusted retailers.also check your local ads,usually you can get even official pretty cheap that way.

    if with that cable you still can't see the difference between composite and component only other option is to use Scart cable if that crt have one and it's labeled RGB.in theory even one labeled s video should look much better than composite but if you didn't nptice the improvement on component more likely than not you won't see the improvement on rgb/s video,but there's slim chance that tv does something weird with component input and will not on scart.
     
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    TnA

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    Usually yes! It's quite noticeable on a moving picture, especially on left-right-movement.

    Yes. Where else? You have a picture shown in-game, so you need to apply it to where it is shown, if you want to have it progressive... What kind of question is that, lol?

    Well... Below 20% officially! (I suppose even waaaaay less...)
    You can however force quite some titles to output in a progressive mode, using GSM...

    Look up GS ModeSelector (also available in OPL)!

    If it officially supports progressive, it will switch to 480p... I doubt that the small decrease in vertical output-resolution between 1 progressive full-frame and an interlaced frame-composit of 2half-frames would yield any worse quality, especially since the render-resolution is different from the output-resolution anyway!

    Progressive output makes the picture sharper, because the TV doesn't have to blend both half-frames together and thus notorious interleaving-artifacts are avoided...

    On a side-note: It MIGHT decrease the visual experience, if it is forced to progressive via GSM and cannot handle the 2 interleaved frame-buffers, thus using only one of both.
    That results in a halfened vertical resolution then... I am not sure, how many games are affected by that, tho'.

    Whuuuaahahahaaat? That's next to impossible... Even crappy 'El-cheapo' component-cables provide a better quality...
    Even the crappy PS2HDMI-Plug'n'Play-Adapters provide a way better quality and they are well below the quality-cables...

    You should have taken a photo or capture of the composite-picture, ahead of giving it away...

    Are you using a 15" CRT or what? Lol
    ...or are these 2$ cables, or what?

    If you have 30$ spare, go for it!

    Blackouts? You have spoken of 'borders'... That has NOTHING TO DO WITH Blackouts... If it actually 'blacks out' for a few frames, than the green cable would be broken...

    The 'borders' all around will NOT vanish from that other cable!!!

    Isn't that obvious?
    TV-Producers are phasing out that connection from their TV-Boards... They don't want to implement it anymore and usually they only add a 'Mini-AV'- or even 'Mini-YPbPr-Connectors' (Klinke-Connection on TV and a converter-cable with Klinke on one end and RCA-Connectors on the other end) to a TV.
    15644766324797778037067192119920.jpg 15644766839376576994776150943836.jpg

    First of all... Noone is forcing you to get cables to gain a better picture-quality... You EVER have a choice (regarding this)...


    HD Retro vision are decent AFAIK. I think the Speedlink-cables are o.k.'ish as well, but even with their relative good shielding, I can see some ghosting if there is/are cables close to it.

    That's quite normal on a FlatScreen, if it's factory-values in service-mode where not tuned to zoom a little bit in, to compensate for CRT-Overscan.

    You can play around with the values, if you find out how to enter the 'service-mode' of your TV. WARNING! THIS IS DANGEROUS! IF YOU TWEAK THE WRONG VALUES, COLORS WILL BE OUT OF BOUND AND THE LIGHT ON AN LCD MIGHT STAY OFF (so you can't see the picture, even tho' the panel shows it)!
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    since he has pal games and pal console i don't think he can't force 480p even in gsm,maybe he can force 576p...but that's not that important since he's on crt and other than slight shimmer (that somebody can even like) there's no difference between interlaced and progressive if the tv/display isn't doing something weird with signal.

    but,since he's not seeing difference between component and composite it's more than likely that it does something weird and especially since his crt has component input that tv has digital processing that renders everything good about rgb/ypbpr useless.those tv's are usually pretty bad at deinterlacing and can display artifacts,unproper image,high lag etc with interlaced signal,so maybe it would be worlds better with progressive signal.

    that and also being old at this points can explain that blackouts (maybe when ps2 switches video modes) and various other problems that he's describing.that's why i'm suggesting to get known good cable and maybe try with ps3 that he has to get known good source of component signal and isolate problems to that tv/display.
     
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    TnA

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    "don't think he can't" or "don't think he can"?!?
    EVERY PS2 can output 480p, regardless of it's region!
    So yes, every single game he has - which has progressive-support - can output at 480p... The PAL-Games which support progressive ALSO output in 480p!

    For PAL-Games which don't support progressive output on their own, this is the preferable output-mode via GSM, as long as the TV/Screen supports that V-mode via component, yes...

    But I also never stated that he should force it to 480p on these (PAL-Versions), but only that those titles which support progressive scan natively, force it to 480p... That's something entirely... ENTIRELY... different!

    Is he? Well, I didn't see that but I only skimmed through...

    That's a false claim... You can definitely see the difference of interlaced vs. progressive on a 100/120Hz-CRT and combing-artifacts are certainly nothing ANYONE would like to see...

    Well, 100/120Hz-CRTs tamper with the interleaved signal and 'blends' the half-frames together... At least some of them do, while some others still support showing true interlaced output on their CRTs... But it does not do anything (or much) for/on a progressive signal (in all of those)...

    I don't see how you come to your conclusion... There is 0 evidence supporting that claim, especially since you haven't ruled out other causes even faintly.

    How do you know that? There is also 0 evidence to support that claim as well + nope... Not true... Just because it supports progressive, doesn't mean it has ANY digital components...

    Mind you that there have been PC-CRTs supporting progressive since years or even decades ahead of these TVs, which had no digital components whatsoever...
    I wished @dlanor were here, lol.

    No it doesn't... RGB is a color-space and ENTIRELY UNRELATED to that and YPbPr is also unrelated to interlacing...

    I suppose it would be... (better via progressive output)

    I agree about the artifacts and so on, but those which do not use digital components to blend the frames (well, only a 'buffer') are at max. 1/60th (resp. 1/30th) or 1/50th (resp. 1/25th) of a second 'behind'... That's a time which most Flats would want to have...

    He was talking about 'borders' around the picture... That's essentially the 'frame' which is determined by software and known as 'field of view' (fov), which usually gets patched when creating wide-screen-patches...

    I already pointed out to him, that this is kind of misleading... and that he should state, if he meant either (black borders around fov), or (blacking out complete picture)...

    Which exactly and how should they relate to an 'old device' (i.e. the CRT you are referring to).

    Yes, that is a good way to test it. I used the PS3 as well, to test component cables... ^^
     
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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    ofcourse i'm guessing and deducting from his writing,he didn't say much other than it's a crt and he has bargain bin component cable,a ps2 and a ps3.
     
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    Windows10User

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    Maybe it could be set on the PS2's settings which you can access after clicking on the Reset button (where you set the time, make the component cables work, etc.). I've read it could be set before the game starts by a button combo.

    What's GSM and if only some games support progressive mode will the component cables pay off? So, component cables + progressive mode gives a better image then only component cables?

    My PS2 isn't modded.

    I remember it (the image offered by the composite cables) more or less, I don't have a CRT and the components cables were more expensive than that.

    And will I notice any difference between the image offered by my current component cables and those ones?

    I have both problems although I don't know if the black borders one can be called that. Be broken? The stuff is new and I've read many component cables have the same problem.

    When it's said it's getting obscure what it's mean by that? Which one, to use the current cables which have the blackout problem?

    Now you say the borders are normal? But I don't have a CRT and like I said if I zoom the image it won't fit the screen and some things won't be visible because the image is too big so it won't perfectly fit the screen. I don't have this problem on the PS3 because the image fits perfectly on the screen without touching the TV's settings (no zooming).

    Again, I don't have a CRT and the PS3's component cables. If it can be caused for the TV being old that why didn't it happen with composite cables?

    Again? No, I don't have a CRT.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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    atreyu187

    atreyu187 Retired Old Hunter Moderator

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    The reason I got so many was I bought a lot of them. I didn't keep buying the cables. That would have been dumb I agree. It was $1 to get multiple cables over just one.

    And I agree official cables should not be put above all else. The only reason I buy official when I can is I know I'm getting quality. And don't have to rely on what others have said. As some find the Pound cables to be "good enough" while it doesn't meet others expectations. And for some it falls back on the TV/monitor as well. Some simply don't accept certain signals and some are not good hardware to begin with. There are many factors in this as well.

    And official cables aren't always the best either. There are many aftermarket solutions that are superior to official cables. I just find it less of a hassle when I get official cables.
     
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    Windows10User

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    Do you know if I'll have the screen blackouts if I buy HD Retrovision component cables? So, unofficial cables may be superior than official ones?
     
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    atreyu187

    atreyu187 Retired Old Hunter Moderator

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    I have had zero issues with my HD RetroVision cables. They are affordable, high quality and easy to use. It's a trifecta for me.
     
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    Windows10User

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    And how do they compare to other component cables?
     
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    TnA

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    Aaah, I get it.
    The answer is:
    • Either hold a button-combo during Playstation 2-Logo and after it, until the VMode changes or a question (if you want to change to progressive) appears
    • ...or force it via GSM for example via the game-compatibility-settings in OPL... (usually, when the game does not support progressive)
    Correct! During and after the PS2-Logo, so it is actually WHEN the game is starting.

    I think it is TRIANGLE + CROSS usually, but AFAIR some games use another combo (still with TRIANGLE, but + CIRCLE or +SQUARE).


    Graphic Synthesizer (the PS2's GPU) ModeSelector', to force a specific VMode... (output-mode)

    Regardless if a game nativly supports it or not, the picture-quality of Component vs. Composite is very good!

    Yes, it does! It's VERY noticeable on side-bound movements (left-right shifting).

    FMCB/FHDB is enough to start these kind of Homebrew-Apps. A modchip will very likely even interfere with GSM...

    Do you have FMCB/FHDB and or a compatible model?

    Even with a photographic/serial memory, that's not a qualifiable method to check for the quality... Compare it side by side and you definitely will notice the difference!

    Well, if you don't even notice the difference between your current component-cable and your former Composite-cables, than I presume you won't, lol... Even tho' anyone else notices it, especially on higher resolutions...

    The black borders are a factory-menu-setting which doesn't compensate for the CRT-Overscan of analog v-modes...

    Google: "Overscan" and "Factory-Service-Mode"/"Factory Settings/Menu"...

    Yes... When you loose signal/picture, the green lead has either a too high or too low resistance or has a weak spot...

    It is however not related to the black borders around the 'field of view'-frame...

    If the source is a n El-cheapo producer/manufacturer, that doesn't necessarily mean... 'jackshit'...

    Where? Would you mind linking to only one or a few of these complains?
    I never had that issue (losing picture), even with very cheap component-cables!

    I already answered that question... Dude, I even made pictures of it for you...
    Manufacturers are phasing out that connection from their boards...

    They are no longer producing TVs with that connection and when they still support it, it is usually only via these adapter-cables! Do you copy/comprehend it now?! (I really don't like stating things multiple times...)

    Since EVERY cable I ever got NEVER had that issue, it might be the connection on your TV...

    Now? Have I said anything to the contrary before? No...! If I did, please quote it...

    Yes, that is normal if you are using an analog signal on a digital screen (Flatscreen), which does not compensate for CRT-Overscan....

    Read what you quoted again and you will notice, that I already correctly stated that... Then Google 'Overscan'...

    Duuuuuuuuude... ARE YOU FREAKIN' SERIOUS?!? WHAT'S WRITTEN IN THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THE TEXT YOU QUOTED THERE?

    Read it again... On a CRT you would NOT see these borders, because a CRT HAS Overscan...
    An LCD HAS NOT, thus to get the same picture without borders all around, the LCD has to COMPENSATE for Overscan or it will show the Overscan-Area as black...

    That compensation is usually done via the Factory-Settings/Menü or 'Service-Mode'...

    What TV-Model do you have/use?

    ...and like I said, that zooming doesn't mean jackshit...
    It zooms by predefined values, which also can be changed in the service-menu...

    Via component and set to the same VMode?
    If the PS3 isn't connected via the same port, let alone an entirely different and Analog vs. Digital connection + also not even the same VMode, that doesn't mean... (here it comes) JACKSHIT!!!

    What happens if you connect the same component-cable to your PS3 and output only at that VMode like on a PS2?

    Do you use the same connector on your TV for Component and Composite?

    That question actually includes the answer...
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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    Windows10User

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    If the game does't support progressive mode can I still use it if I do that?

    I don't have it nor I don't know how to make it work. I don't know if I have a compatible mode. Can I use the HDD on the PS2 Slim (like mine)?

    Well, like I said, I no longer have the composite cables.

    Maybe it's better but not by a long shot.

    LG Flatron M2262D-PC

    Via HDMI. What's VMode?

    No.
     
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