Ps3 Slim shutdown during gaming without any beep or light on (cut off electricity)

Discussion in 'General PS3 Discussion' started by vr6cer, Apr 27, 2017.

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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    Hello, I recently purchased a second hand Ps3 Slim CECH-2504A console. It came with Rebug 4.60 CFW, I updated to the latest Rebug 4.81.2 CFW. In the previous and current firmware as well, when I start gaming, after a while, the system cut off electricity from itself. No red light is on. And when cuts off, no beeping or any YLOD symptomps. The CPU and GPU is around 68-80 C degree always. The system fan stays usually around 28-30%. I already cleaned the Ps3 and reflow the termal paste, but no luck, the problem still exists. Inside I have the APS-270 UPS with 2 potmeters. I have tried to adjust the potmeters seen in tutorial videos for this slim, to fix this cut off issue, but the problem still exists. And strange thing: If I use Habib CFW, I have this problem too. If I load from Webman or Multiman the games, same problem occurs. If it is a PSN game or original disc game from blu-ray drive, the problem still there. And if I reinstall the system, everything working fine but once suddenly a game cut off, and after none of the games are working. All of them cut off during intro or the first 2-3 minutes. I tried diffferent 100% good condition hdd-s and different power cables but no luck. What can cause this ridiculus cut-off shutdown problem? Thank you for any helyp!
     
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    Joonie

    Joonie Developer

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    Maybe you have an issue with the PSU itself. Did you try a different PSU? I know you tried the different Power cable, but I don't think you tried a PSU replacement yet


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    Sadly I was unable to get an other PSU to try with my system. :/ But maybie I am going to purchase a brand new aps-270 for around 30USD... Thats the cheapest and only option in my country :( Or do I need to take off the IHS and replace paste under it? :/ I would like to avoid this step, I am worried to damage my chips. Now on top of the chips I used a noname thermal compound... can be this an other problem? I would like to purchase Arctic MX4 paste to replace my unbranded one. But before the psating with the Sony official thermal paste, which lied on the chips the problem still existed. Cleaning wast enough to my console as well (but it wasn't so dirty inside).
     
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    No0bZiLLa

    No0bZiLLa Moderator Developer

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    its not the paste (just keep check of temp on xmb), like said earlier, the problem is more than likely the psu because it turns off when gaming. faulty voltage regulators or capacitors going out will cause this issue with not only the ps3, but with almost any other electronic. it sounds to me like your ps3 is not getting the proper voltage while gaming and is crashing.

    EDIT: you may find out there are other issues once you buy a psu that works. if it is anywhere near 80c after 2-3 mins of gaming then that is DEF an issue. your ps3 could also be overheating to the point that solder under the cell or rsx is disconnecting and causing shutoff.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    Wow guys, you are so amazing, thank you for fast answers!!! :) So first of all, I need to buy a new PSU and check if the problem still exists with it. And also I put new Arctic MX4 thermal paste on to the CPU and RSX to see what happens.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    I re-applied Arctic MX-4 thermal compound to the CPU and RSX, but my temperature increased! It easily reach after 5 minute idle at XMB 70-78 degrees for CPU and RSX. (RSX always hotter than CPU). I Applied the paste with dot method on the middle (pea size) and pushed the heatsinks on to it. It was 2 days ago but system still hot. And to be worth: none of the games working now... All of them wich I try suddenly shut off the system after few seconds or intros from start. If I use webman fan mod, and cool down the console to 55-58 degree, the problem still happens. So in my opinion it is not an overheating issue causes the power cut off. What should I try next? I am so upset now and lost all of my hopes :( Do I need to buy a new power supply for my slim? But if it not working, I am going to lose a lot of money with this system :/ I tried to use the console without the control board, but same shutdowns occures as well. The motherboard is clean from previous thermal paste and clear from MX4 as well (mx4 does not lead electricity and not short out the board). I recalibrated the current APS-270 battery potmeters to it's default value, but no luck.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    I tried with non-cobra cfw-s, with 3.55 cfw, and 3.55 ofw.... and latest cfw-s (habib, rebug, ferrox etc..) Same problem everywhere.
     
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    kozarovv

    kozarovv Super Moderator

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    Try different PSU. Also this can be "dreamcast PSU" issue. Try to remove psu, and clean all connection points with Isopropyl alcohol. Specially that two 12v points that are sticking from PS3 motherboard. Next thing you should check are capacitors on PSU, and maybe on motherboard (is rare to damage MB capacitors).

    About rising temps... Sadly you made mistake by changing paste, your paste under IHS was dry. Now is probably broken due to change of pressure you made when you opened ps3. Is not 100%, but very possible.

    Edit: And fact that you facing issue more than before can be sign of broken BGA under one component, but don't need to.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    Thankfully, I did not applied extreme pressure to the CPU and RSX, just normal pressure. Before this Ps3 I did lot of Ps3's, like fat and slim modells without any problem. They are still working. I cleaned and applied thermal paste with the same method like with this slim. So this is why I don't understand the issue. I checked every single capacitors on the PSU and the motherboard as well, and there were no signs of damage on them. I used contact cleaner spray to clean every connection points on the motherboard and the psu as well. Or do I need to use isopropyl alcohol? I have a special 98% alcohol from Pharmacy in my household. I use this to clean electrical components and it is working perfectly! But I highly appriciate your fast answer.
     
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    kozarovv

    kozarovv Super Moderator

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    But if paste under ihs dried when it was assembled, then when you disassembled it pressure was much less, and paste can broke. All depends how ps3 was used by all those years.

    You should try with multimeter, also check all fuses. There is more of them on motherboard.

    Never used contact cleaner, but it sounds like this is enough. No need to try additional cleaning imo.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    I understand you. Oh, I am a bit noob at electricity.... Do I need to check the capacitors with multimeter? Not just with my eyes, if they are broken or not? How do I need to set up the multimeter to measure it correctly? And how I am able to measure any short on the motherboard (just to be sure)? And how can I chaeck the health of the PSU with a multimeter? I have a DT-830B Digital Multimeter, you can see on the picture. Thank you so much!

    [​IMG]
     
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    kozarovv

    kozarovv Super Moderator

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    Due to your multimeter is lack of capacity measurements mode you can use:

    http://www.wikihow.com/Test-a-Capacitor

    Method 2, mostly doable without removing capacitor.

    set jog to 200ohm and look try points that can be shorted, if any of them show "0" it means there is short. "0" should be only on fuses, marked on $ony boards as Fxxx iirc, if any of Fxxx show you "1" on multimeter it mean is broken. Also you should check that resistors have good values. But it's look for me that BGA under CELL, or RSX are broken. But I can be wrong, electronics is not my specialisation.
    There is no easy way, you need to check components one, by one.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    kozarovv, thank you so much for your detailed, fast and professional help! I am going to try out all of the possibilities, which you mentioned for me.
     
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    zOi

    zOi Member

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    Replacing the NEC / Tokin capacitors with Tantalo that stops switching off. Sorry, I do not speak English



    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Why you adjusted the APS-270 potenciometers in first place ?
    I mean... if you adjusted them... it was because you had some problem before, right ?... so what was that problem ?
    Im guessing the PSU had problems before, adjusting the pots maybe made it work fine for a bit more time but that adjustment is not going to fix it completlly, eventually it was going to die, and this is what happened now

    Also, the problem of adjusting that potentiometers is before adjusting anything... the first thing you need to do is to mark the potentiometers "wheel" with a permament pen marker or with a cutknife, to mark the original value from factory
    This way you could return to factory settings at any point (making the marks you painted in it to match)... but because lot of people doesnt makes this marks is completlly imposible to return to the factory adjustment

    If this is your case, then is just a matter of test/error with the potentiometers adjustments, but if the PSU is partially faulty you are not going to get any good result

    ---------
    About the overheating... thats a different problem but what you should do is to get used to the fancontrol apps so you can see with your own eyes the temperature at the exact moment the PS3 turns off
    Also, you should take notes about how the temperature increase for CELL/RSX separatedly to be 100% sure which one of them is the responsible (usually is one of them, but could be both)
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    Yes I adjusted them because of the random gaming shutdowns. Before the adjust I marked with an alcoholic pen the default factory positions so I am able to make it back stock. Now they are turned back to stock values. But no difference sadly.

    For overheating, the rsx starts to get overheag first. At a normal startup they have 47-50 degree both of them. After 5 minutes idle at xmb the rsx overtake the cpu by 7-9 degree, so cpu is around 65 degree while rsx reach 72-75 degree.
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    And I never got any overheat message from the console. I use webman but with syscon vent settings and I did not take out the overheat message from it. So I think it is not shutdown from overheag. Because after a half day off time, I restart the system and if I try any kind of game they all shutdown. I tried 3 different hdds, they are 100% good, but no luck.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Btw... you could use a PC ATX power supply just for the tests (so no need to spend money by now)
    Basically... the PS3 PSU outputs 12 volts that are the main power rail at the "prongs" (that metal pillars of the PS3 motherboard), this is the main power that is only enabled when the PS3 is turned on (not in standby)

    In standby it uses the "5Vsb" pin (sometimes named 5V_ever) from the tiny white connector... that voltage feeds syscon (so syscon is always active controling leds, button inputs, etc)
    When the PS3 is in standby (with only syscon active) and you press ON buton syscon detects that button press and sends an order to PSU... and this is what enables the 12V main rail

    The problem is an ATX PSU doesnt have any pin to detect that signal from syscon. Actually an ATX PSU has a pin used to turn it on but works a bit different... so is not posible to turn on an ATX power supply connected to a PS3 just by pressing the PS3 ON button (it can be done with a transistor i think, but this is another story, you dont need it)

    Long story short... from the ATX power supply you just need to get 2 voltages... the 12v... and 5v
    Additionally you need to prepare something to switch ON the ATX PSU externally (it can be made with just a wire to bridge two pins of the ATX connector)

    Better search for a tutorial, is not hard but there are a few details that needs to be considered, and be very carefull because you are going to be "playing" with voltage wires not connected properlly (you are going to need to imagine how to attach the wires firmlly with some clamps or something like that) also... protect everything very well with tape to avoid shorcuts
     
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    vr6cer

    vr6cer Member

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    Nice tip sandungas, but sadly I have notebook only in my household. But I have a Ps3 superslim. Am I able to hook the superslim psu to my slim? It is a cech-4004a 12gb slim.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    If i remember correctlly the conectors are the same so initially is posible, but the phisical dimensions of a PS3 superslim PSU are different than a PS3 slim PSU. In other words... a superslim PSU doesnt fits well inside a slim case
    What you can do (temporally, just for the tests) is to take the motherboard out of the case
    I think without the plastic console case the superslim PSU should fit fine in a slim motherboard

    But the real problem is the PSU's for superslim are like 40watts less powerful than a slim PSU
    http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Power_Supply#PSU_Model_.40_SKU_compatiblity
    In other words... if you use a superslim PSU on a slim motherboard... the PSU is going to "suffer" to generate the "juice" needed by the motherboard

    Is going to be a bit like the sceneraio you have right now with the APS-270 that is "partially faulty"
    It works when the motherboard doesnt request much power.... but when you enter in a game and all components are at full workload the PSU cant handle it and commits suicide
    As example... if your APS-270 was originally 196.95W... at this point maybe is 150W... the console works but only if the sum of power requirements of all components doesnt exceeds 150W
    With a superslim PSU connected to a slim motherboard you are going to be in a similar scenario
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
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