Reflections about backward compatible PS3 - CECH-C [pros - cons]

Discussion in 'General PS3 Discussion' started by kozarovv, Aug 29, 2015.

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    kozarovv

    kozarovv Super Moderator

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    My previous PS3 was one of slim models, i was happy to get it. All working fine, now i get Semi - BC Playstation 3. What's "new"? Is only my personal reflections, disadvantage for me can be advantage for you, etc. But i think is worth to read this.


    maxresdefault.jpg


    Pros:


    - Backward compatibility PS2 is MUCH better than using net_emu (Cech G - 25XX)

    I'm really surprised about backward compatibility of my PS3. My model is lack of Emotion Engine and rambus memory (CECH - A/B got it), but have Graphics Synthesizer. My luck is that i'm able to test hundreds (maybe even thousands) of titles for PS2 as i have access to library of rental place of ps2 games (sorry i'm not sure about this word, google give me - lending library, hiring establishment, rental place). Compatibility is much better. THPS4 and newer, NFS: U2 are working, Flipnic slowdowns are dissapear, and many many more. But.. PS2 emu and gx emu have some official restriction, but if we using cobra firmware then we can go around that. (eg. My PS2 Official PS2M collection is working only under cobra). Also CECH A/B/C/E are able to "true" upscale games to 720p/1080p by changing GS mode like GSM for PS2.

    - Overall look:

    3 of first 4 models don't look like next FAT models, A/C/E have chrome trim that look amaizing. Is not the same trim like in CECH-G and later. Is true chrome color, not like in later model which have "mat" chrome instead. Also i heard (never saw, by myself) that CECH-B look amaizing with his unique black trim. Is my personal POV but first FATs look amaizing.

    - USB Ports, Card Reader

    Not much to said, just BC consoles got 4x USB ports and Multi Card Reader. For some people is nothing special, but for another one is very useful stuff. I really like card reader. I have really bad access to my PC (is behind my 32" tv), but i have external card reader in it. For me is much easier to use card to to manage my firmwares between my PC and my PS3.

    - Modding potential:

    For now i did only some cooling mods as my PS3 need thermal paste replacement under IHS. But (i didn't know that before) FAT PS3 cover (A/B/C/E for sure) is semitransparent! This mean you can easy add some led logo, temperatures lcd, and many more. Fat model are older, this mean that more probably more people tried to did something with this models. You tube is full of useful or good looking mods.

    - Feeling:

    You got one of this rare things that are not so cheap, look nice, and for people that know ps3 scene are unique. I don't know why but i feel better playing on this hardware than on slim. but this is really personal feeling.

    - SACD

    This piece of hardware can be a really important part of your audio system, Super Audio CD (SACD) is a read-only optical disc for audio storage, introduced in 1999. It was developed jointly by Sony and Philips Electronics, and intended to be the successor to their Compact disc format. While the SACD format can offer more channels (e.g. surround sound), and a longer playing time than CD. Soem people don't heard that difference. Others keep that is really important, in short. Good to have it.

    - xRegistry.sys

    This file in NAND based PS3 are stored in real chip, this mean you don't loose that after change hdd. For me is advantage but for others this can be disadvantage.

    Cons:


    - Cooling the monster:

    90nm is for now very old process. Two main processing units in PS3 are manufactured in 90nm, comparing this to 65/45/40 nm in slim give you simple results. your ps3 have 2 (not measured profesional) times more TDP than current models. From cooling side this mean that earlier PS3 models need more cooling than slims. But sony didn't had too much experience in cooling systems when they released first models of PS3 (later heat sinks also showing that they don't learn too much). Worst thing is thermal paste that sony used, we can easy replace this. But they are still using same TP under Heatspreader which is not easy to change. Is not a secret that paste have same thermal ability like toothpaste (not kiding here...), and is drying after 2-3 years and need to be replaced for best cooling. So if you have 90nm components in your PS3 you see this more than on 45nm. Also airflow in fat is a sad joke from Sony side, simple internal mods give you 7-8c plus 19 blades fan and you have summary 10-12c less than on stock. Add webman and YLOD for you is only legend that you heard somewhere then.

    - Power consumption:

    More heat is more power consumption. And in this case is not a slightly different, from ps3devwiki:

    CECH-C model power consumption: Watts/Max 200w / 380w
    CECH-21XX model power consumption: Watts/Max 85w / 250w

    As you can see average max power usage is ~2 times more than in my current model. For me is not special problem, but electricity is not so cheap in europe. If you using console a lot then you probably will be able to see different on your bill.

    - Buying risk:

    Is not a secret than 50% (one more times is my calculation) is reflowed or after reballing. Is not a problem if you get reballed ps3, is even better. But PS3 after reflow give you max 1 year to reballing. If you want to buy BC, SEMI BC try to search thrusted source. Also part of that good 50% need to replace thermal paste, less or more (in my case less - temps ~60-63c) this also can't be done by noob in home, is risky.

    - NAND..:

    Fat BC PS3 are using NAND memory, now is have almost same safety level like NOR but in 3.55 times you can take a brick easy. for now also is small risk if developer forget about one patch then you finish with nice console shaped to PS3 style paperweight. Also NAND is slower than NOR + HDD, this also bring more risk (more time to update, mean more time to turn off your elecricity in update time).

    - YLOD chance:

    Excluding buy risk or if you don't keep your PS3 cold (~62c or under, one more time personal observation. Cooler mean better) your console have same chance to YLOD as slim. Also if you don't keep temps low then risk is much more.

    I improve this when i see some different in usage. Or heard your feelings.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
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    atreyu187

    atreyu187 Retired Old Hunter Moderator

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    I love the phat BC models but still got YLOD on mine. I upgraded the PSU from the 40gb model which was more efficient. Added MX-5 thermal paste and a hardware fan mod that kept it at about 50% but could easily adjust as needed. Even went from 15 to 19 blade fan. System did me great from 3.41 to 4.30 days. Yearly I replaced the paste on my 60gb BC and every other month took apart and dusted the inside. Then came that fretful day playing Red Dead Redemption, my system beeped and powered off to get the YLOD of death upon reboot. I sent it off to get reballed as for the extra cash it was added security in my mind. I babied this system as it was near and dear to my heart as I owned it since day one. Sat in line for 18 hours to drop $600 USD.

    Anyhow after sending off for reball I eagerly awaited its return but two weeks after shipment it was deemed lost by UPS. I was frantic and pissed all as the same time. Upon filing my insurance claim it was magically found in the Utah main distribution hub. I sent from South Carolina to Texas so it should have never went that far west but was relieved it was returning to me finally until it arrived.....

    I sat at my window waiting for UPS to deliver my system and when the truck pulled up I jumped for joy till I saw him get out whistling with my package in banding straps, crushed box and holes in the side of the box to boot. He tried to do the old drop and run but I quickly stopped him and confronted him not only about the condition of the box but how he was swinging the box like it was a play toy. Took his name and info and rushed inside to open my system.

    To my shock a fork lift had went through the side into the case. Removing tons of components on the board well beyond the point of repair. I contacted UPS who told me to file the claim again which I did. Upon inspection the package wasn't in the one I had originally shipped it in as I had the UPS store pack my baby properly. When it returned in a normal box with only newspaper from a Michigan paper (again nowhere near Texas where I sent it or near Utah where it was "found" upon trying to redeem my $600 insurance) I promptly asked the trusted repairman if he returned in the original box which he had done. So I got UPS on the phone. They refused to give me my insurance claim as it wasn't packed by UPS on the return home but by the repairman which I had done business with for years. Since a verified UPS employee hadn't packed it they couldn't be certain the damage wasn't done by him. When asked why it was in a new box with only newspaper from a state half way across the country to the north they again replied without being packed by a UPS employee he could have done the damage and put shody material to ship.

    Long story was I lost my beloved launch day system to sheer idiocy and the "insurance" I paid for was nothing short of a scam. Even taking the best precautions to prevent YLOD it still happened and I never ever had another working one.
     
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    jemismyname

    jemismyname Forum Noob

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    That's a super sad story! I actually cried a little bit. I really loved my original A01, as well. I had to put her in storage, which always bothered me, so i ended up giving her away, just so she didn't have to sit in a prison and never get played.

    I just picked up another A01 at the portland retro games expo, this weekend. I'm super excited. It's like being reunited with an old friend!
     
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    snkplkn

    snkplkn Member

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    @atreyu187 Unbelievable story. It wasn't YLOD that killed the console but clumsy Postal service that put the nail in coffin of your PS3. RIP

    I am sure @Naked_Snake1995 would like to share story on his CEHC.
     
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    jemismyname

    jemismyname Forum Noob

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    @atreyu187
    I'm seeing 2 or 3 systems on amazon in the 120 to 130 range... that's pretty good.

    the prices on these things have been a yo-yo for the past couple of months (thanks Metal Jesus :P ). they have been averaging $250 when the have stayed around the $175 mark for the past few years.

    I got mine for 140, but it was nice to buy it in person... the condition was perfect, and you could tell the sellers weren't shysters...

    I think it was a great deal for somebody who knows the value.

    But then again, it looks possible that the PS5 may be rocking some type of FPGA for backwards compatibility... so, that might be the way forward (backward)
     
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    ISAK.M

    ISAK.M Member

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    Wait what, why has this thread been revived?
    No matter what, I had a CECHC04 as my last system before Slim. It died to YLOD and my dad threw it away before I could get the eid_root_key :(:(:( one of THE worst moments of my life...
     
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    Cypher_CG89

    Cypher_CG89 Senior Member

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    Making the PS5 BC with PS3 as well as PS4 would make the PS5 insanely expesive to make and sell. And I don't think there is an FPGA out there that clocks at the CELL/BE's 3.2 Ghz needed to run PS3 games, they normaly clock in the Mhz not Ghz afaik.

    The CELL/BE is a thorn in [email protected]'s side and they want rid and the only thing now using it is the PS Now Servers, they had to buy an enitre factory just to be able to keep making the IBM CELL/BE and Nvidia RSX just for the PS Now servers, I doubt they will have spent more money on R&D into an FPGA that would clock and the right speeds or they would be able to get rid of the CELL/BE from the PS Now servers.
     
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    ISAK.M

    ISAK.M Member

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    Metal Jesus Rocks is the best retro gamer out there, and now he has alot of subscribers aswell LOL
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    If i share my story on my CECHC's, that would be like a entire university writing thesis, so id rather not to

    Everyone by now should know the story at its core, but lets just say my CECHC its still running healthy, a bullet-proof console, and a proud owner.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
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    Cypher_CG89

    Cypher_CG89 Senior Member

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    Whats this derp crap.... Bullet proof isn't the same as "@Naked_Snake1995 proof" :oie 19113229e8ymug9p: thats a whole new level......:rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling: and what your PS3's need to be.....:-p
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    . [​IMG]

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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Hehe, thats what i was thinking, a dedicated processor to emulate the PS3 would be another expensive component in the list of expensive components of the PS5
    Also, it would be a bit like repeating the "mistake" of the launch PS3 models (expensive, high power, high noise, high temperature, etc...)

    The way to go is to write a ps3emu to emulate the PS3 100% by software, and it would not surprise me if they have it ready for the PS5 release date, because probably they realized about this more than a couple of years ago (so at this point the software based ps3emu should have at least 2 years of development)

    The source code of RPCS3 is available and have a good compatibility
    Sony have that source code to study it, and they also have tenths of professionals programmers and engineers that obviously are experts in the PS3 and PS5 arquitectures

    So i would bet they are going to do it soon or later... and at that point they will be able to start replacing the PS3's in the PS NOW servers by low power PS5's
     
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    snkplkn

    snkplkn Member

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    So new category of "PS3 Classics" coming for PS5. Handful of games that will work for PS5 with software emulation.

    But PS4 BC will go a long way. A lot of PS3 titles are already on PS4 remasters. And PS5 with full PS4 BC will give a lot of options of gamers.

    But i don't see much reason for buying PS5 in first couple of years. There are very few next generation titles that actually utilize the power of console hardware. Better games start to come only after 2 years of console. PS3 in first couple of years was bad. That's why it depend on PS2 BC early on. Imagine 2006-2008 of PS3 without any PS2 BC. A total waste.
     
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    DoublesAdvocate

    DoublesAdvocate Member

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    I don't think sony can just ignore what microsoft has done with their back compat on the xbone. I would expect it to be a big motivator for publishers as well, MW2 went back into the top sellers when it was added to xbone back compat. I wouldn't expect to see a hardware implementation like we saw on the original PS3 but more of what we saw for PS2 games on the PS4, a software solution with various configs to fix issues on a game by game basis. Sony are perfectionists when it comes to this stuff but I hope we see a back compat percentage somewhat close to what we got with PS1 on the PS3.
     
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    remlei

    remlei Member

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    stop talking about PS5 backward compatibility with PS3 or lower, as it was confirmed that it's not going to happen. The patent only shows for backward compatibility with PS4 games, which is meh (well its better than nothing). If you know how compatibility mode on Windows works, it works just the same here.

    but with PS5, PS4 console is basically junk and have 0% ownership value on it specially if you want to play your PS4 games, just like what happend on PS1, when PS2 supports PS1 games via backwards compatibility, everyone just use PS2 because why not. Though not the same with PS3 for some reason specially for speedrunners.
     
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    DoublesAdvocate

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    If it plays PS4 software then by definition it will also play all the PS2 games that already run on PS4. I don't know why you're treating some patent as gospel, there's a patent for a Playstation game cartridge yet Mark Cerny has already said the PS5 will have a UHD bluray player
     

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