PS3 Tutorial - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD FIX

Discussion in 'Tutorials & Guides' started by Naked_Snake1995, Jul 15, 2019.

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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    You should not meassure them in continuity (where the tester beeps), but in resistivity

    When you touch with the tester at the sides closer to CELL/RSX... what you are meassuring is the resistivity of the internal circuits of CELL/RSX (in bewteen volts and GND inside his circuitry)
    That resistitivity is always low... it could be something like 0.150ohm

    If you set the multimeter in continuity and meassure that 0.150 ohm is going to make a beep noise indicating that there is some continuity... but that could mislead you because that small continuity is normal
     
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    Chino Moreno

    Chino Moreno Forum Noob

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    @sandungas low resistivity does make sense. I see mobo repair folks check for shorted caps via ground test. So i was expecting only one side to beep.

    Sent from my TRT-LX2 using Tapatalk
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    But you removed the caps, so what you are meassuring are the other components of the board around (and the internals circuitry of CELL and RSX)

    Try to do the same test in other chip, meassure in continuity in between GND and... any other pin (inputs, outputs, even volts pins)... the multimeter is going to beep in most of them
    And this could mislead you into thinking the chip is completly in shorcircuit internally

    But is fine, is normal :)
    Is because the lines inside the chip are microscopical, and a small amount of the electrons (sent by the multimeter) can "jump" in between lines inside the chip
     
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    Chino Moreno

    Chino Moreno Forum Noob

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    Got it.
    Tronix fix from youtube spoiled me into thinking it was easy to fix motherboards via shorted caps diagnosis.

    Sent from my TRT-LX2 using Tapatalk
     
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    SEGA-CD

    SEGA-CD Forum Noob

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    Thanks for your response. I figured this would be the case. I also thought a lot of his logic and beliefs sounded quite off. I have tested the capacitor theory myself and fully believe them to be the issue. I don't see how blowing hot air on some capacitors for 20 seconds is causing the board to warp enough to make cracked balls contact.

    I've also taken apart systems numerous times and had no difference in it working as well, there's no way that's the reason the systems are working. If it was because we are messing around with the board and causing a temporary fix, you would think people would be seeing their capacitor replacement last only last a couple of hours. In fact, has anyone successful in replacing them had the system fail again in the same way? I haven't seen anyone say so, only cases of people soldering them improperly needing to go back and make adjustments.

    Also I think you read my post wrong, the person I quoted is called Squeept. He was replying to PS3 Specialist's post on the PS3 Specialist website. I am well aware of PS3 Specialist's "business" practices.

    (As for posting on Reddit, yeah it's a crap place overall. I've been a user for years, I only stick around for the smaller communities at this point)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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    Freedy

    Freedy Member

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    Hi,
    Probably I can get a 60GB RLOD ps3 today, for quite a good price, do you think replacing the capacitors would fix the problem?
    I have a working 60GB model, so I can try replacing the power supply.
    So basically my question is, if not the power supply causing the RLOD, is it possible, tht the NEC capacitors causing the problem? If not, could you recommend me an other thread about troubleshooting RLOD?

    @Naked_Snake1995
    Thank you for the great tutorial, I am glad that if my working 60GB model gets YLOD(never been reballed fortunately) I will be able to fix it.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Even if the machine has been reballed is not a big deal, the only thing it could go wrong is a GPU Substrate Failure due to the intensive heat,but thats unless you have a working unit that shows Graphical Artifacts.

    What i advise is to get a unit that hasn't been touched, that way you are sure nobody tampered with it before, no reflows or anything suspicious.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
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    Freedy

    Freedy Member

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    I won the auction yesterday, one model (CECHJ, I guess) that can't read discs, and the RLOD 60GB PS3 I mentioned in my previous post.
    I will get the package tomorrow, I am curious whats inside them. The both ps3 and shipping was 40USD, If the CECHJ model only needs a laser, I think it was a good price, but I'll find out tomorrow.

    I ordered capacitors from aliexpress, I think I need to wait at least 2-3 weeks to get them. It would be great if replacing the capacitors would solve the RLOD. I'll keep you informed.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    My apologies for misreading the user, you are 100% right, also this Khaled character (aka:PS3Specialist) made a description on his website, not only the information he gives as a description is totally misleading, false and with poor details, but also he uses a gimped version of someone's awful soldering work which ive seen the picture before in this forum, which isn't even the real grid positioning of the Capacitors as i described, claiming is a waste of time and money, something daring for someone with a bad reputation in the business.

    Anyhow, i suspect this chap whom posted on Reddit is no other than PS3Specialist, himself, i can't be quite sure, but i am also not bothered by the criticism, to add to the topic, he claims my engagement with the users whom are following the guide, its by swearing and disrespectful, i mean seriously, if i were to disrespect someone, i would be long kicked out of here, in a record time,that's no exception even if you are a Senior Member.

    Ive made a few quick browses around reddit, and never thought my tutorial would be such widespread around the Web, people actually testing and reporting great results, which makes me happy and proud, that the myth can finally be contradicted and put to a rest,but of course there are always users whom are skeptical, and report negative criticism, without any actual testing, but thats they're loss not mine!

    For the users whom revived they're units and reported great success from the repair, i must thank you, without your support, i couldn't got this far, to spread this myself, my thanks also goes to this great community, that made my word possible.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Sure, thing, you'll get our upmost support for your repair, it doesn't hurt to try, as long as you have the skills for it, you are pretty much golden.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Sometimes what i explained about meassuring the resistivity of the internal circuits of a chip can be used for checks... but is needed to know the value from a different console as a reference, and that console "should" have very few use, this way we are sure the value is going to be very close to the first day when the console went out from factory

    Like... in PS2, there is a chip named BA5815FM (and his familly) related with the laser, and it suffered a lot of stress, so it was needed to check his pins one by one... and compare your values with the reference
    Lets say... if the reference is 0.150ohm and you have 0.130ohm then the pin is ok... but if you have 0 then the pin is wrong (in other words, there is an internal circuit inside the chip that is fryed)

    You could do the same in this case for the PS3 tokins btw... after removing them, if you meassure his pads it should give you a value that should be very close to other PS3 of the same model
    But... you dont have the reference to compare it, though :(
    The only thing you can do related with this is to post your values in public here, and wait for other people to post his owns to compare with yours
     
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    Chino Moreno

    Chino Moreno Forum Noob

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    Honestly, i dare not reopen the console i fixed. I was actually planning to reapply the thermal paste because i was soldering on tantalums with the fresh paste exposed. After finding out it worked, i said to myself, nevermind, I'll let it be. I even left out one thermal pad when i put it back together. The one attached to the metal latch. So i dare not touch it for now. I felt lucky thinking that theres no way both sides are grounded. Lol

    But i did see a burnt mark when i removed the tokin on the rsx side furthest away from the cpu. So i suggest people start with that cap. And I'm using a cheap multimeter that im not really confident on when measuring small values like the resistances you have mentioned.

    Overall Im really thankful to this forum for giving ps users so much value and knowledge about the ps systems for free.









    Sent from my TRT-LX2 using Tapatalk
     
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    Gehirnstaub

    Gehirnstaub Member

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    Thanks for your reply! I'm not even sure if it possible to fix my console. When I received the console I gave a guy so he can remove the headspreder and apply liquid metal asap. Well the temperatures of the console were badass at this time and I really enjoyed playing on this system.
    THIS is the console now: https://pic.twitter.com/KZ3MtTxmDv

    I never touched it then since it happend. The only problem that I have is that I can't find anyone here in germany who could fix it. I found a guy in the netherlands but the whole fix would cost me about 115€ with shipping...
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Not really worth it spending 115€ to repair, specialy when you don't know the procedure, but if judging from the time-frame of the YLOD, I'd say the Capacitors are spot on, it's not an instant shutdown, still takes a bit to trigger, so replacing the NECs shouldn't be an obstacle.

    Just get the right ones, and replace just on the top layer of the board, one for CELL and one for the RSX,this should resolve your issue.

    Sometimes if you insist, it can "miraculously" power on, but you'll have to insist with it, give it a try.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    Hiya, folks. Squeept here. Not PS3specialist. You can easily figure that out with 30 seconds of the research you claim to love, since I both call him a thief in my original post, and I give you my eBay username. Feel free to check out my profile, where you can see I have thousands of transactions with 100% positive ratings. You can also see that the PS3 is a small fraction of my business, meaning I have no vested interest in reballing - only in fixing things correctly and trying to get you people to stop butchering stuff that I have to fix later. I'm not saying the tokins can't go bad (though it is pretty rare in my experience), I'm saying that if you don't have the means to diagnose these issues correctly, you shouldn't just be blindly stabbing your soldering iron in to stuff.

    TLDR: If you're not doing any diagnosis at all, expect the results of this repair to be the same as jamming your board in a toaster oven like a pop-tart. Plenty of you will get lucky, but it will likely only last a few weeks.

    I literally don't see any research in your original post. You saw some posts on badcaps from 2014 (https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34583) (https://badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40265) and decided to pretend you discovered some new issue. You just jumped to conclusions without any actual supporting evidence then talked in a cirlce, copy and pasted some numbers from datasheets to try to look smart, and wrote a guide on soldering. I don't even see you testing a single capacitor to prove you found a bad one. I'm starting to believe you don't even have a capacitance meter to check your idea. Show me a SINGLE picture of you measuring a bad Tokin. Since I have a pile of dead boards labelled "YLOD, reballed, no change" I pulled one at random then took off a set of caps. They are 20% caps, and the ESR should be 1 mOhm. Here's the datasheet for the proadlyzers: https://file-databank.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/NEC-TOKIN-0E907-DATASHEET.pdf

    By your posts, at least one of those caps is GUARANTEED to be toast. My meter is not perfectly accurate, and the leads and wires add a little bit to the ESR. When I pull the clips off and hold the tips straight to the contacts, they all read 0.00, but I don't have an employee to force to take pictures while I hold them in place so I can't prove that. So, generally, I'm going to call anything under 0.10 fine. I'll even narrow the range on the capacitance to 10%, so anything within 1080 and 1320 is a win. Here are the first 4: https://imgur.com/a/ZbfHYm6

    I can do that all day with numbered gold sharpie, but I'll need about 2 hours in between pulling batches of 4 because my machine is in an enclosure and needs to cool down between pulls. I can also take pictures of the next GPU I lift in 2 days when it's done in the drying oven. I can literally show you the oxidized pad where a stress crack was at. I can do that every 2 days for the rest of the year if you'd like.

    So, I guess the first thing you're wrong about that I want to tackle is why heating the caps isn't doing what you think it is. I don't know where you got that idea. Capacitance is certainly on a curve directly related to temperature, but that's only for temperature at the time. Heating it up doesn't "fix" it. Maybe you read about polymer capacitors and completely misinterpreted the part about self healing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polym..._self-healing_mechanism_and_application_rules). So maybe you saw the part where some polymer caps have a self healing mechanism that is thermally induced. Well, that happens automatically through the life of the cap. The failing areas increase in resistivity as they fail, which causes a very precise localized heating because of a high current searing that essentially cuts the damaged area out. Do you see why just heating the whole capacitor causing this doesn't make any sense? The capacitor already does it itself. If you were heating the whole cap to a high enough temperature to cause this on a large scale, then the WHOLE cap would break down and be entirely useless. You can inspect for this damage visually, by prying to top of the cap off. You'll see very small burned areas, even on perfectly functioning caps. It takes quite a lot before this impacts the service life of the cap - remember, they literally designed it to behave this way. Here is a picture from my now-defunct instagram showing a normal amount of burning on one (ignore the gouges from my clumsy knife hand, look to the two upper corners for the burned areas) - https://www.instagram.com/p/BpS1vbqljIB/

    I don't understand why you don't believe that taking apart the system, messing with the heatsinks, and heating things up can't cause a shift of a few microns to cause a board to work for awhile. Even some of those idiots with a hair dryer got lucky and had their console last for years after they put it back together. I don't think you know how small a micron is, which brings me to the next thing you're ridiculously wrong about.

    EVERY device with ANY BGA package that gets hot will eventually form stress cracks in the array or the bumps, usually LONG before electromigration can kill the chip. It is far worse in lead free solder due to it being more brittle. This isn't an opinion you can disagree with, it's simply fact. I can refer you to a number of sources that you are free to argue against, but I'll need to see your peer-reviewed science and governing body approval before I give a crap. In fact, I look forward to your panel at the next IPC convention where you tell literally every scientist, engineer, and expert in the field that they're wrong. Check out the IPC (the body that literally governs the design of circuit boards and solder) document IPC-7095D. In section 7, you'll find dozens of reasons that assemblies will come from the factory prepared to fail prematurely. In section 8, under reliability, please refer to 8.1.1 "Cyclic Strain" through 8.2.1 "Comparison of Thermal Fatigue Crack Growth Mechanism in SnAgCu (SAC)vs. SnPb BGA Solder Joints"

    Here is just one of hundreds of academic studies on the lifespan of BGA joints: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3dc5/53e6b99be68c41bbef16ec62786a85793ca8.pdf

    This particular study found that using a temperature of only 100C (only a little higher than the thermal shutdown of the PS3) resulted in a 100% rate of failure (at least one crack per BGA assembly) after less than 500 thermal cycles. The mean time to permanent failure was 243 heat cycles. This is with only 92 balls per assembly. The PS3 has 10 times that amount on the RSX, on a bigger package which can flex even more.

    If you want to even bother replying to this post, I want to see a single shred of verifiable evidence of any of your claims. I want to your your capacitance meter showing a bad tokin, I want to see where you got the idea that heating up the tokin will fix it, and I want a single shred of evidence why the PS3 would be the only thing in the world that has BGA chips but somehow magically DOES NOT form cracks from thermal stress.

    I can post a dozen more similar studies with similar results, but I'll let you look those up since you keep saying you love research so much. By the way, the guy who I was replying to on reddit when my post got copied over here just posted again - his PS3 that he fixed by replacing the tokins is dead again after 2 days.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Good evening @squeept, i knew this day would come, so lets keep this topic as respectfully as possible, no insults,just two men talking individual opinions and facts, of course, you might not agree to what i have to say, i understand that, you mind even not want to hear about it, and keep going in your own direction, totally understandable.

    First off, this post never began as a reading, of some unknown post of "Bad-Caps" from 2014, my curiosity for this began much more earlier than that, approximately in 2012, it didnt had nothing to do with the PlayStation3 however, but rather with a personal laptop i owned back in the day, since my ownership in 2008, TOSHIBA, model A300, if you heard of them, then you´ll know what i am trying to get to,but lets continue.

    During that time, the laptop began to fail, eventually shutting itself off while starting it cold or in Desktop mode, but what i quickly figured it out, is the Laptop would work "normally" under hot conditions, meaning that the Laptop would work properly as intended, until the machine was cold again, never turning itself off again, the problem was, the more i used it, the more and more the shutdowns were frequent, and within a 5 month time-frame, the shutdowns were so frequent, that the machine refused to turn itself on.

    After making a few browses in some forums, there were thousands of users, with the same problem on TOSHIBA Laptops, on many different models, from the Satellite range all the way to the high-end Qosimo, but all of them had one little component that was shared between all models, a SMD Capacitor called NEC/TOKIN OE128/E, the same SMD Model used in the PlayStation3, up until the 2000 Slim Model.

    What i figure it out later on, is that by heating the Laptops chassis, just warm enough to the touch, the Laptop would turn on again normally, and could be usable for hours on end, but if it was cold, the Laptop would even boot, it would lead to an instant shutdown, sounds familiar?

    Repair shops quickly figure it out, that by replacing the NEC/TOKIN, with four equivalent 470uF Tantalum Capacitors, the machine would work again, as day one, somehow this problem was never attributed to the PlayStation3.

    Fast forward to 2019, ive acquired a PAL CECHC04 Model PlayStation3, this was my 8th Unit, during 2012 and 2018, ive owned 3 reballed units out of the 8, all were Phat Models ranging from the C/G/H and K Models,and let me share the facts, they didnt last me more than a year, all of them professionally reballed with Lead Solder, all of them meet they´re demise.

    Anyhow, this unit was faulty with the YLOD issue, but after i was browsing YouTube on a ordinary day, ive stumbled across a Brasilian User whom had a YLOD CECHA01,which failed after a stream, he quickly pointed out that the machine, working, then after that reflowed, and stopped working again, but there is one thing he didnt do the machine,but he perfectly knew what he had to do, and that is replacing the NEC/TOKIN Capacitors, which after the replacement the machine start working again, and until this day, he still has that A01 fully operational,along with a few other PlayStation3 Models which gone the same treatment, none of them are reballed, all running the original OEM Non-Lead Solder.

    So after a few doubts, ive decided to test it myself,and what a perfect candidate to use than my recently bought C04? So ive decided get a few 470uF 2.5V,salvaged from a few COK-002 Boards i had lying around, and after the procedure was complete, lord and behold, the machine would turn on again, played with it everyday, never showed any signs of problems, even one user suggested if you experienced any form of YLOD upon a normal shutdown, then you should replace the NECs on the CELL B/E which was totally true, and eliminated any form of YLOD upon a normal shutdown, the unit still works great as we speak, no extra modifications were put it to it, aside a 6 month Thermal Paste replacement, the BGA Grid is still stock OEM.

    Unlike the TOSHIBA Laptop NEC Layout, the PlayStation3 uses 8 NEC/TOKIN SMDs, paired 4 for the CELL and 4 for the RSX, so if one of them fails, the whole unit fails, and there is no way to check the capacitance of each SMDs without taking them off the board itself, so you´ll have to do a blind guess,which is unprofessional that is true,and i do have to agree on that, but is the only way for now, to know if the repair has been successfully executed or more NECs need to be replaced.

    Ive never claimed to have discovered anything, don´t know why you are taking words, and claiming that ive "discovered" or "invented", i didn´t discovered or invented anything, i simply shared my procedure regarding the replacement with users in need, without even claiming as my own, i never claimed to have love or pride for my achievement, i am not Thomas Edison to steal Nikola Tesla´s work, claim as my own and then make a profit out of it, because this is certainly not my main goal, my point being is trying to educate and spread the word with users who want to try it, i am proud of the users who tried it,and reported great results, they know who they are, and if they ever have anything as an objection or to express that,ive been lying to them, they are more than welcome to do so, because let me tell you, outside of Brazil and perhaps Philippines,which i saw a similar topic, the West doesn´t even know about it or only a handfull bi-lingual users know about it, aside for reballing,and that all the solution is reballing.

    I don´t dissagree,and never mentioned the BGA couldn´t be damaged, but before people jump on the reballing gun, they need to stop, and inspect the machine a bit, learn how it really works, there are legitimate ways for reballing,but for the PlayStation3 is no need to do that, unless you know you have to replace a SMC or a Chip, or need to rework solder corrosion, the aloy used on the Lead-Free Solder has a tolerance point on average on 217ºCs, at 100ºCs, you arent even making a dent at the BGA Grid, reflowing and reballing only works, is because when you are heating the Chips, you are heating the area around the SMDs, thus restoring they´re capacitive properties, pretty much like the Laptop, that ive mentioned before,but it seems that the bigger the heat, the longer they stay operational, the same aloy was used all across the PlayStation3 Generation, from the early models, all up to the Super Slim, yet only the Phats and the 2000 Slims present this issue, and why is so? $ony replaced the NECs on the preceding models, the CECH-2100 and upwards with Tantalum Capacitors, due to they´re high failure rate, $ony knew all along, what was going on,but unless we get a "official" word from someone from $ony about this issue, we´ll never get to the conclusion, entering a never ending loop about Reballing and Replacing the NECs.

    The only console in my eyes, that is worth the reballing, is the early generation of the XBOX360´s, which the BGA Grid is indeed defective and it does show cracks, Microsoft even acknowledged the problem about problems in the manufacture yeilds, and the BGA Grid problems the machines presented, due of them rushing they´re console out of the door, but $ony doesn´t have quite a reputation to deliver bad-quality products or rush them out of the door.

    Ive expected this kind of backlash from someone whom reballs PlayStation3´s on a daily basis, of course as a business, you can´t get anything contradictory, to ruin the way of the business, but get this, not everyone has 2000€ reballing stations, plus i am sure reballing is charged in between of 100~200€ for the service,which is 2 times the amount, you get a PlayStation3 of the used market, and nobody wants to fork that amount of money, if you cant guarantee them, that they´re machine will be running again, plus this replacement can be done with a bit of search, proper tesing and knowledge, not to mention that SMD´s are 10 cents a piece, same thing with PS3Specialist,which documented this issue,but instead of going indepth, simply butchered the article leaving many loose ends,not to mention using a bad presentation example of a user whom has gone through the procedure,but decided to "have at his own way",by solder the SMDs, the way they werent mean´t to be soldered,thus creating a big and ugly mess.

    I am intrested on knowing whom is the user you claim, that his PlayStation3,died 2 days after the replacement, because so far ive haven´t heard nobody mentioning such a thing, and they know they are more than welcome to do so here, but if i am guessing that "user" is someone i saw not to long ago, calling me a scam artist, by getting the systems back from me or overheating, i mean i dont do repairs to nobody than myself mate,not to mention my unit still runs after almost 3 months from the date of the repair,but if it fails,ill be more than gladly to let you know, so i am not getting any systems here, plus i always support the users in anyway i can, and i havent heard someone mentioning, that the repair failed,people know this is a tutorial, and they must follow this at they´re own discretion, any mess they create with they´re units, is entirely they´re responsibility, and everyone should know that.

    In conclusion, we are both in a gray area here, you have your beliefs, ive got mine, we both share the same thing, but non of us are right or wrong, until we get an "official" $ony engineer involved with the PlayStation3 project, this will remain an endless loop of uncertified facts.

    By the way, the "user" you mention, has the GLOD issue, with comes with no HDD activity, video or DS3 sync, its either the GPU has failed or the South Bridge is done for, this issue, still hasn't been resolved, and this doesn't even link to the NECs themselfs, ive had a 60GB last year GLOD on me, and a 2500 Slim, both these consoles were unmodified,this has nothing to do with the NECs, so your association is pretty much inadequate.

    PS: I would be careful on using inadequate words, because everything you do or say, is public to the eye, by calling us "these idiots at PSX-Place" , you not only are disrespecting the members of this community, now you have just been a marked-man, you are so bent on proving everyone are inferior to you, but let me tell you, you are better than nobody in here, we are all at a equal level, but if you self-value yourself with that kind of arrogance and attitude, you just lost my respect, hope you have that in consideration, since that's not a kind of a behaviour a grown man displays to the public.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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    squeept Forum Noob

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    Here's 5 through 8: https://imgur.com/a/7Qk1jh4

    Unless you used me or like a dozen other people in the USA, they either misdiagnosed your issue or used crap equipment and did a garbage repair job.

    The failure of a capacitor is due in equal parts to the design of the circuit board, the design of the capacitor, the environment it is in, and the manufacturing process. In other words, I don't care about the same capacitor failing in a laptop. Show me that it failed in a PS3. Your anecdotes and "this is right because I previously said it is right" statements don't mean anything to me.

    I'm going to keep posting pictures of in-spec caps and oxidized pads to this post until you show me a single failed cap or I get banned for being annoying. You can stop me by responding directly to my cited sources with your own, or by posting a single picture of a failed cap.

    There's no grey area to me. At this point, I'm so confident that you're talking out of your ass that I will issue a formal apology and concede that I'm entirely wrong if you just post a picture of a standalone capacitance/ESR meter and your username on a post-it note within the next 24 hours. Not even showing a dead tokin, just the meter.

    It is currently 1:58AM eastern time.
     
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    squeept Forum Noob

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    $50 in store credit to the first person that shows me an out of spec tokin pulled from a PS3.
     
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    Sampsonay

    Sampsonay Forum Noob

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    Why did Sony replace the necs with tantalums in later slim models? They still run extremely hot (well over 80 degrees C with stock paste and fan speeds) yet barely ever get YLOD. I can even hear the outer plastic in my decade old slim making cracking noises after i turn it off due to heat warping it a bit, yet no interior bga issues here. Ive personally only seen dead slims caused by physical abuse or insect infestations. So why did Sony replace the perfectly up to spec necs?
     
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    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    NEC/TOKIN wants to know your location!
    With that arrogance, i am sure i wouldn´t use your services, your confidence precedes you, Europe isnt exactly known for owning crappy equipment, or do a horrible job at replacing the solder, at this point you are so desperate to promote your services, and shut this thread down, in fear of loosing your clientele, i saw that coming from a mile away lad,but that doesnt bother me one bit,since i am not using it as a monetary gain, ive got better things to do with my time,and fixing PS3s isnt one of them, unless if they are my units.

    Since when did i mentioned "this is right because I previously said it is right"? I gave my point of view, and thats it, whether you think is a plausible opinion or not, again rephrasing, your statements also dont mean nothing to me, i rather to look broadly into other options than getting ripped off by 200$ for a "fix", that you dont know how much will it last,and if is definitely the right choice to make.

    How the association between the same capacitor from a Laptop which is the same used in the PlayStation3, isnt valid, it has the same part ID and uses the same principle, yet you deny any associations with both of the machines, then why replacing them on a Laptop,works the same with the PlayStation3, wonder why myself? Yet, you throw your studies about Solder-Joints cracking,but thoes studies never mention a single thing about the PlayStation3, not to mention, if all the machines were to use Lead-Free, all of them would be dead by now, there are still people with OGs PS3s never reballed, yet they still work, if this is such a wide-spread issue, i wonder why it doesn´t affect the newer models, if the same aloy is used between all Generations, like @Sampsonay,mentioned and well described, all models run at 80ºCs,even when abused, yet only the Phats and the 2000 Slims are affected, besides, to really reach 90ºCs, you´ll need the heatsinks detached,with a machine that has abused, 79/80ºCs, and that's on the chip scenario, inside is much less than that, around 50/60C°s and that is the farther it will go, even by testing both sealed-units for 3 years straight with OEM joints, ill guarantee you, the Phat will fail first, and the Slim will keep going, assuming is not a early 2000 Model,but a 2100 and upwards, even the newer 4000 Models, run at an abysmal 75/80ºCs, and also yet they dont fail.

    Not to mention, the top NEC/TOKINs are more susceptible to failure, since the bottom ones are actively cooled,while the top ones are passively cooled, making they´re operational temperature much higher, thus degrading at a faster pace, thats on the Phat Models, on the 2000 Slim is on the contrary, plus the only way the machine will boot normally, is if the capacitors are at 1200uF or upwards, the degradation tolerance it will go can´t be lower than 1100/1150uF, failing to achieve that value,will give the YLOD, and remember, there are 4 NECs for each processor, which all of them work in tandem, if one of them is lower than 1200uF, the machine,again will fail to boot.

    You can post as many pictures,as you want, it doesn´t really make a difference, if you´ll feel that you achieved something, by all means congratulations,i wont enter in a much further discussion with someone arrogant, in fact,ive made the courtesy of leaving you some proof on how you can diagnose the NECs properly, this chap from Indonesia, did just what you wanted to see, not only did he saved my time, but also saved me the hassle to buy any equipament, of course, you´ll compain about the language barrier,but thats not the whole point of it, the point being, is watch how he properly diagnose the NECs from a PlayStation3 board,and how he mentions the use of Tantalum Capacitor SMDs, watch the values as he tests each of them, and note how one of them is bellow the 1200uF mark, this is why the machine has the YLOD,and its all obvious and common sense,but again, ill be expecting a arrogant response,and claim it on Reddit.

    PS: If anyone has any objections or critics, please feel free to step-in, as well if anyone wants to add something,you are more than free to do so.

     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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