PS3 Tutorial - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD FIX

Discussion in 'Tutorials & Guides' started by Naked_Snake1995, Jul 15, 2019.

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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    Well theres ur problem u have only done half the job, the thermal paste under the IHS's isnt transferring the heat well enough anymore and needs to be replaced to get better results. So now u can only put a band aid fix (temp fix) by upping the fans which really isnt needed once uve done the job correctly.
     
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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    were u able to remove the NEC tokins safely with out destroying them?
     
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    SiegHart93

    SiegHart93 Member

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    nope bro i completely destroyed them xD ! i tried to remove them without any damage but damm those necs are so fragile dude :/
     
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    Beanerman

    Beanerman Forum Noob

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    I was afraid of that, I guess I'll have to take the plunge. I'm always more afraid of taking those off than soldering on the board, LOL.
    Thanks man, I got me some work to do, Again. :)
     
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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    Its only the CPU u need to be wary of but that is the one that needs attention too tho so if ur not confident id recommend finding someone who can do the job. Maybe wait till u get those other 3 units and if u cant manage to get any of those working use those as tests boards. until then i wouldnt recommend using the ps3.


    ahh my mistake the way u were talkin it sounded like u managed to remove them safely.
     
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    Beanerman

    Beanerman Forum Noob

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    Na, I can do it, It's just so tedious, lol. Just gotta be more careful. I might wait for the others, but we'll have to see if I CAN wait that long, lol.
    I'll report back either way. :)

    UPDATE:
    Well, went through de-lidding. New mx4, still getting 77°c for CPU and 67°c for RSX after ps2 gaming. That's without control fan utility.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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    Edwired

    Edwired Member

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    For temperature related problem make sure that all the silicone on the IHS and CPU is gone as if left on after thermal paste is applied it will result a higher temp reading. I did the same thing before with fan at 30% temp was below 50c all day with both end with mx4 paste
     
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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    This is prob best in a separate thread but best to show some photos, id be putting it down to method or somthing simple ur over seeing that we cant tell just by a few words.
     
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    Maroon Storm

    Maroon Storm Member

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    Sadly, not me. I can't fix that dam n slim of mine. It just doesn't boot. Once I managed to boot up with its hdd, started a last of us and since than no luck. When I'd once maganged to start the ps the start was after six on/off circle. Since than I'm trying, the last installation is behind/under the RSX side there is 4+4 470uF tantrums on the top under the RSX 3+3 with the symmetric designe, but no luck and I've just burned my finger.

    Also I'm very anxious because I'm trying to get a CECHA12, but this time I'm not going to take the nec's off, instead I'm going to try piggy backing or how it is called when you just solder on NEC's sides tantrums. I've bored with carving down those NEC's without heatgun, that is painful and I've already kicked off a little component on my CECHC before I burned myself.
     
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    Donkeybizle

    Donkeybizle Forum Noob

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    Does anybody have a D lid tool for sale? I’d be willing to pay for someone to make me one that works. I’ve killed about six PlayStation’s now and had several tools I’ve made but just can’t seem to get it right :-(
     
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    Beanerman

    Beanerman Forum Noob

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    I made 1 out of a thin piece of metal which I ground down and them smoothed. It needs to be very thin, but strong and, very important, Smooth to keep from scratching those traces. Then it just takes heat and patience, patience

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    UPDATE:
    I'm working on making a tool, once I test it, if successful, I'll update.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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    Edwired

    Edwired Member

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    try finding metal spudgers kit which have different bits on the like a knife on the end but it really thin handy to get to really small gaps
     
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    So, I've been arguing with myself about whether to post this because I'm sure some people are going to plug their ears until they see the parts that they like, but I've got a huge update. In order to ensure that my findings are not misrepresented, I'm going to bold a statement first: I have now either changed out the TOKINs or, more recently, used an oscilloscope to stare down the voltages on about 30 fat boys in the last year or two, and I have STILL never seen this in the wild.

    I've had a top secret project in the works for awhile now. Since nobody could provide me with a failed set of caps, and I couldn't find any on my own........ I, uhm, made some. I left a set in my drying oven for the last month at 120c (datasheet says these are 1000 hour 105c caps). I have a bonafide yellow light causing set now!

    I have a TON of work left to do, and it may take me a week or two to document everything, but unless I'm screwing up something in a major way (not uncommon), I think I've got all the answers now and a 100% accurate diagnostic method.

    Here's a quick summary in the mean time:
    • everything OP says is wrong
    • some of what I say is wrong
    • oscilloscope shows all, it's ridiculously obvious when compared to the baseline images
    • still don't know what's technically happening, but I'm working on it
    • got 5 second YLOD but sometimes boot and quickly crash when I pulled them out last week
    • left them in another week and now they 1 or 2 second YLOD every time
    • 100% certainty now if you heat things up and then they work, it means you have a BGA issue or a dying GPU/CPU. On a reballed system, the scope didn't so much as jiggle no matter how much I set them on fire and cooled them back off and the behavior never changed
    • again, I'm 0 for 30, but it is in the realm of possibility for a dust filled, clogged fan, heavily played system to pop them after all this time. I never said it wasn't, just that BGA issues and dead chips are exponentially more common. Now that we will have a concrete method of diagnosis, I'll be keeping precise track of everything that comes through my shop so we can have a realistic estimate on the prevalence of the issue. Maybe I was just absurdly unlucky and everyone in this thread is absurdly lucky.
    • Obviously over time, it will get worse no matter how rare it is right now, so it's still worth figuring it all out anyway.

    When I'm finished, I'll again be requesting that this thread be unstickied since it is filled to the brim with misinformation and outright lies, including some from me. I'll be happy to write something up for a mod to post and sticky, but I don't want my name on it because I don't want people bugging me about this from now until the end of time.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    When you decide to say that the OP spreads [email protected]@t,and want this thread unpinned, although is not your call to make, even though there are too many cases of it working, it shows how desperate for attention you are.

    You know if this works, you are sure that Reballing PS3s will take a nose dive, i saw this coming a mile away.

    In all honesty, i don't care much about reballing, and ill only use it as a last trump card, my C04 is still running as we speak, no signs of slowing down, gee i wonder why if i has the same OEM lead free BGA Grid, are you going to point out again that now changing the thermal paste and screwing it back together works for a miracle? If that was true, i guarantee you it would be dead in 10 min flat, just with the cracked BGA grid.

    You want to continue the Reballing route, sure go ahead, do what you have to do, it worked for me, and it worked on many other cases, so i don't see any deviation from the main cause, that point out to the unpinned of this thread, if new discoveries will be made along the lines, the thread will be modified to meet the criteria, do you really thing all the Reballing threads and documentations contain legitimate information?

    Ill leave the rest in the witnesses who successfully preformed this replacement, my schedule is full to deal with your shenanigans, and my time isn't something to be wasted, unless I see reason too.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    I'm about to show a 100% accurate, easy to do, simple to reproduce and verify diagnostic method. I've documented everything I've done along the way. All you've done is repeat the same few debunked points over and over and repeat "but it works" even though just as many people ARE NOT having any success with it, and I've explained repeatedly how it can incidentally work. Sorry, I forgot to get videos of the weight test since I thought we had moved past that. I'll grab those videos on the next one.


    "are you going to point out again that now changing the thermal paste and screwing it back together works for a miracle? If that was true, i guarantee you it would be dead in 10 min flat, just with the cracked BGA grid."
    I see we're still pretending that people haven't been shimming the heatsinks on various systems for a decade with great results. Let alone that one of the early "fixes" for the YLOD that went around was just for people to change their thermal paste and it magically worked again. Do you just stroke out every time you read that? Because you never address it but then keep bringing it up again later.

    "it shows how desperate for attention you are."
    I literally just said I don't even want my name on it. Are you high?

    "You want to continue the Reballing route, sure go ahead, do what you have to do"
    Is this supposed to be an insult? Are you actually upset that I want people to actually do some basic testing before they rip things to shreds?

    "You know if this works, you are sure that Reballing PS3s will take a nose dive, i saw this coming a mile away."
    So why am I going to provide everyone with a completely accurate way to diagnose the problem? You are straight up delusional.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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    Edwired

    Edwired Member

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    squeept just make your own thread it plain and simple
     
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    nCadeRegal

    nCadeRegal Moderator

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    Don’t start this bickering again guys. It’s not about what repair is better. There are a obviously ps3 that suffer from this affliction. This thread is here to diagnose that and find a lasting repair for it. Until @STLcardsWS tells me to unstick it, it will remain as is.
    This is a tutorial and research thread. Please explain to me how that is not what has been going on here? Stop demanding things from me, and stop the bickering! Make up a nice tutorial on reballing and I’ll stick that for you so you don’t feel left out.
    I won’t let anyone come in there and bash your techniques and demand it be unstickied.
     
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    "Make up a nice tutorial on reballing and I’ll stick that for you so you don’t feel left out."

    I don't even know how to reply to this. I'm not advocating for any repair over another. I'm advocating that dangerous repairs aren't arbitrarily done on bad odds. All I've ever been asking is that people actually do some diagnosis before they rip things to shreds and permanently damage their systems. The amount of push back against that idea is baffling. I don't understand how nobody else thinks it's troubling that this thread has people discussing the best type of chisel to use on a circuit board.

    I'm talking to a brick wall here. I keep providing mountains of evidence and it just keeps getting ignored or I get an essay back about how I'm an asshole. It's incredible that I've been under so much scrutiny, but nobody has applied that same standard to any of the original claims...

    Whatever, I'm out. You don't need the rest of the work - there's not really any new information and it would be a waste of time to provide it to be ignored anyway. The baseline scope images are correct, just use those and compare - it should be 100% accurate for identifying the problem. The images from a bad set of caps are completely different. You'll know instantly. They also look nothing like the ones from the missing caps, so ignore those ones. There is no other way to identify them except with a scope. No obvious spec change happens, and no previous test (including mine) means anything about the caps. And if someone else with a scope and a reballed system wants to make a video of heating up their caps and showing the voltages being completely unaffected, then have at it. Since it won't be from me, everyone will believe you without question so you can prove that the "heat test" means BGA/chipset problems.

    But I'm just a corporate shill for "Big Reball" so what do I know. Happy hunting.
     
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    Edwired

    Edwired Member

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    squeept it a simple task to create a new thread for yourself so you can have your own fan base than rather pushing people around come on some of us in this forum cant afford high tech equipment just to find out what cause the problem in the first place. Your a prime example of steve job to be honest. You are fixated to reballing so be it. Since then people have reported that changing the a few tokins for tan caps replacement having good success so that it ok stop sulking like a child so move on
     
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    Sorry, was gonna peace out, but since I really am actually trying to help, I have to share these last two images before I go. I just finished switching my test console over to completely tantalum so I could get these images. This is 4x 330uF per tokin.

    GPU idling:
    [​IMG]

    CPU idling:
    [​IMG]

    While it works perfectly, the sustained spikes on the GPU line (spending about 10% duty at 1.6 volts now) and the overall increase in voltage on the CPU line (0.06V increase on average) are suuuuuper bad in the long run. Also note that this isn't even under load, just idling. Overvolting a chip directly decreases its lifespan and quickens electromigration. Ask the overclockers, or buy a GPU from a crypto miner.

    Actual NOS tokins are still available. Please consider using them instead of tantalum. If not, the increase is likely due to tantalum having a slightly higher ESR than the polymer tokins. The tokins are rated at 1 milliohm ESR. Get as close to that as possible to minimize the impact of overvolting.

    Alright, now I'm off to reball some pancakes and bacon. Peace!
     

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