PS3 Tutorial - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD FIX

Discussion in 'Tutorials & Guides' started by Naked_Snake1995, Jul 15, 2019.

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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Sorry, but I am not going to buy a 200€ grill to fix a propably 50€ PS3... Can I preheat in the oven? If yes, what temp?
     
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    gmipf

    gmipf Member

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    I am only telling you what I have used. I don't have any alternatives in my head right now. Search in google for preheating solutions or just do it without preheating.
    I have bought my grill second hand for about 90€.

    EDIT: Some people recommends 150°C others 200°C for preheating, it depends on the technique. But I'm not a professional.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 5:41 PM
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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Ok thank you. I will now dissasemble it. :)
    Will keep you guys up to date

    EDIT: Ok, after disassembling the Mainboard, I now see that the legs of the caps are not completely covered. Can I leave the NEC caps in place and just add my wires to the legs, you can see on the picture?
     

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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 7:22 PM
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    gmipf

    gmipf Member

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    Quote from FAQ:

    Remove the outer shell of the first TOKIN and solder the positive pole directly.
     
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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Ok, but I am not sure, how to remove the cover. It says "by melting", but, which temp? My hot air station cannot go below 300 °C :/
    Anyway, I will give it a try tomorrow.
     
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    gmipf

    gmipf Member

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    Just remove it with nose pliers without heating.
     
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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Oh, ok. If this is possible, it shouldn't be a problem (I hope).
     
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    Howdy, cultists! I've got good news for everyone! I swore that I was not going to try to help y'all anymore, but I've had quite a bit to drink, and I now have my first ever "in the wild" set of failed TOKIN caps for both the CPU and GPU!

    I didn't want to post the images before when I threw a hissy fit about being the only one in the whole thread that anyone dared to question, since I didn't have anything to compare them against. Luckily, these oscilloscope images match the set I burned on purpose almost exactly. I am now comfortable enough to look up my password and log back in. Continue to question only me, while believing everything everyone else says without a shred of proof, but this is a repeatable fact now.

    Before we get to these images, I can not emphasize this enough: it took 40 consoles before I found these. I guess that's still a small enough sample size that the margin of error could be pretty high, but that's almost the goddamn inverse of the made up numbers in the original post that you all believed without question. Just browsing the last few pages since I logged back in is pretty supportive of that. In addition, I tried the "heat test" out on these AFTER reballing and BEFORE replacing the caps - it does nothing. I'm 100% confident now that if the "heat test" works, you have a chipset failure or a BGA issue. Ask Louis Rossman - y'all probably worship at his altar because he's half a dipshit, but he'll tell you the same thing as me. But, you know, just keep not doing the "pressure test" for some reason, while still clamoring to tell me I'm wrong.

    Bad GPU TOKIN:
    [​IMG]

    Bad CPU TOKIN:
    [​IMG]

    Now, can you all stop butchering these poor consoles? Don't act like an oscilloscope is some sort of exotic equipment. I do not accept that. Your city has a maker space, your coworker has one in his basement, or one of your facebook friends can hook you up. It takes 10 goddamn seconds to verify the issue now. Respectfully, everyone shut the hell up until you've got a few dozen scope images to back up anything you're about to lie about.
     
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    nCadeRegal

    nCadeRegal Moderator

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    Thanks for the “proof” as you say for our cult. Still doesn’t explain away why you gotta come in here being a complete dick all the time.
     
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    Shinichi Kudo

    Shinichi Kudo Forum Noob

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    Very clean job. I'm in a similar situation with my CECHC04, replaced 4 Tokins on the underside of the board, and I have definitely noticed a change in the timing of the YLOD. Waiting for more capacitors to arrive, but it feels like it'll work.
     
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    Shinichi Kudo

    Shinichi Kudo Forum Noob

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    The more I read, the more it seems that ESR drifting away from spec on the Proadlizers is the problem here, not the capacitance. Remember, you want low ESR, not high.

    Also remember that the Proadlizers are basically welded sheets of aluminum with silver paste in between as electrolyte.
    From this link:
    https://www.avnet.com/wps/portal/ab...understanding-esr-in-electrolytic-capacitors/

    The Proadlizers are used in the PS3 as part of a DC-DC circuit, I assume. Perhaps the switching frequency of the VRMs in the PS3 would be useful to know here. I am not sure if squeept's diagrams help in this regard.
    But there is still the question - if it's because ESR was going out of spec because the Proadlizer was cold, why is it that reheating the board would cause it to work for a year after that? Perhaps it has something to do with how the paste redistributes itself inside the Proadlizer once heated? Anyway this is all conjecture now and I'm glad NEC doesn't sell them anymore.
     
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    gmipf

    gmipf Member

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    I have played Gran Turismo 6 now for about an hour, no stuttering, no YLOD, no problem at all till now. Have only replaced first TOKIN with 4 of these Caps on a CECHC04.

    EDIT: Tried The Last of Us now, no problem there either. Everything stable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 10:30 AM
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    Why? It's pretty simple. Because you put "proof" in quotes when I give everyone an easily repeatable and verifiable solution to this problem, but everyone else is automatically assumed to be correct when they're just making shit up. That's a pretty good summary of every interaction I've had this whole thread. So, while I'm still happy to log back in to share when I have a new discovery that can help people stop curb stomping their systems, I have zero motivation to be civil.
     
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    Squiglemouse

    Squiglemouse Forum Noob

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    Okay question, and none of this is intended to be rude or dismissive. If it's as you say it is(and to your credit you're coming in with oscilloscope documentation and plenty of technological know how) Then what possible explanation is there for any of the documented units being fixed using Tantalums to replace the nec tokin? Are they just all flukes? Wouldn't that be rather strange if the rate was in line with your large( but still statistically small sample size)?
     
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    squeept

    squeept Forum Noob

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    Yes, I already showed video of a system running TLOU and GT6 just fine with half of the capacitors removed. It was fun watching the goalpoasts get carried to the next county over after that one. I think I deleted my Youtube channel in my social media purge because people keep bugging me to fix their systems (I'm already locked in here, can't delete this account, I tried...). I was also promptly ignored when I showed everyone how to isolate the capacitors on board for capacitance and ESR measurement. That brought me to my favorite part of this saga: being repeatedly told I'm wrong by people that were forced to admit they literally do not possess the tools or meters required to tell me I'm wrong.

    I didn't bother to get any video of either the set that I murdered or the natural causes set (both on reballed boards) doing literally nothing when I heated them up and watched the scope the whole time while trying to boot them up. I correctly assumed that it was pointless because everyone would ignore actual results to just keep telling me I'm wrong.

    I checked the ESR on the set I murdered and it was like 3 or 4 times higher than it it should have been, but still an order or two of magnitude lower than any of the capacitors people are using as replacements (someone on Youtube used electrolytics....so...). It is not directly an issue with ESR, though the higher ESR may be indicative of the overall failing health of a TOKIN. Whatever, not like anyone is going to bother measuring that or listening to me there. I didn't measure the set from last night since I don't care about that avenue anymore.

    The oscilloscope tells all, so I'm just making an archive of the waveforms from every system I work on now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 1:17 PM
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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Ok, so, I now have changed 2 of the NECs on the back of the rsx and i got, like, nothing.
    Ok, after the first start, it was green for a longer time period, but now, it is back to "almost instant" again.
    Continue with the ones of the RSX or now the CPU?
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    NEC/TOKIN wants to know your location
    My Guinea-Pig L04 that refuses to boot after been working properly with only 4 NECs remaining, without any Tantalums says hello!

    The C04 says is still in good health

    So far it hasn't been luck to be honest.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 2:40 PM
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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Which 4 ones did you remove?
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    The ones on top, mind you i had no intention on fixing it, just for research purposes.

    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
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    hoyohoo

    hoyohoo Forum Noob

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    Hmm, i already removed 2, 2 move will follow tomorrow. I hope, it will work

    @all: the + and - of the caps are shorted on the pcb. Is this normal?
     

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