CECH2501A delid gone... bad

[manples]

A picture is worth 100 words. I was careful and all but I guess the delid Gods were against me today. So pissed off right now...

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

Unfortunately the gods weren't against you, you failed to do your homework, i am sorry to say the least, starting with the 2500 Series, the CELL/BE Die is soldered into the IHS to avoid problems like deterioration on the CELL die, leading to overheating, pretty much like AMD CPUs are soldered together, only the older models need eventual deliding, the newer ones from 2500 and upwards, don't bother, you are not the first one that did this mistake, but well sh!t happens, no big deal, only a dead board, but certainly its a experience,don't let that discourage you from deliding, just make a bit of search on which models are soldered and which ones is regular TIM on the IHS [emoji106]

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

 

[amirzaim]

"Press [] to pay respect"

 

[sandungas]

Which CELL model it was ?, as far i saw in the photos posted by people that had this problem it seems to happen with the CELL models that have that spherical "bumps" (16 in total) located all along the border

Im not sure if is a coincidence, but the CELL models with that "bumps" are glued to the DIE (and is a glue btw, not soldered), in this photos it can be seen a bit, is a thermal glue of light gray color

 

[manples]

.. starting with the 2500 Series, the CELL/BE Die is soldered into the IHS

I can't believe I missed that... I've spent hours on this forum and watched all the delid youtube videos, I feel stupid. That PS3 was running fine, a bit high (65-65 idle) hence the delid tentative, but fine. I guess I caught the moronavirus.

Thanks for the encouragement @Naked_Snake1995 I needed that - but it's the second PS3 I destroy this month so maybe I should stop anyway lol

@sandungas here is a picture of the RSX lid : CXD5300GGB - 1042HCJ

 

[sandungas]

I edited my previous post @manples sorry it was a typo, i was asking about the CELL model with that 16 spherical "bumps"

 

[chrisp099]

It's still better than what I did. I couldn't even delid my cell. I kinda went way too hard on it but it was a dead board for practice. But I still failed.

 

[manples]

I think it is that video who decided me to delid my 2501 :

Since his was a 2503 I thought I was good. I saw the black plate so just like he said, I was expecting the bumps. I took my time and very slowly cut through the glue, then pried a little bit until it popped-up, split in half... I'll have nightmares tonight

Here is the CELL I've destroyed miserably :

 

[manples]

Looking closer, I think I see some thermal paste (or glue?) between the die and the lid. It doesn't look like one solid soldered piece, but for sure, the bond is strong enough to crack the die open... Even with heat (which I applied with a heat gun)

Hard to see in those pictures.

 

[ElGris]

I edited my previous post @manples sorry it was a typo, i was asking about the CELL model with that 16 spherical "bumps"

I never delidded a slim (nver had one either) but there's to versions of that one with the dots. The one with the CELL soldered to the IHS, and the other one that's not.

P/S:

 

[sandungas]

Look at this table of PS3 slim components https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Talk:SKU_Models#PS3_Slim
The CELL CXD2992BGB is a bit special, based in his name we can deduce is a more modern version than the CXD2992GB that appears in the wiki table
They added a "B" in the name for some reason... we dont know why, but i think it matches with the presence of that "bumps" (and indirectly that bumps seems to indicate the DIE is glued)
Not sure... but it loooks sony starting glueing the CELL around that dates... seems to be all the CECH-30xx (or newer), but as you did show some of the CECH-25xx models have that special CELL versions too
So is not directly related with the PS3 model... is something specific for the CELL version

And yeah, what can be seen around the DIE is not solder, we are completly sure is a substance of light grey color, it looks pretty much like thermal paste but most probably is a thermal glue

 

[sandungas]

I never delidded a slim (nver had one either) but there's to versions of that one with the dots. The one with the CELL soldered to the IHS, and the other one that's not.

P/S:

What can be seen in this video is not soldered, i commented it in other forum post, the confusion happens because the silicon have a metallic look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon
The DIE is made of that material, think in it like glass, is a strong mineral because the connections in between his atoms is very strong, but is very fragile

 

[sandungas]

Can you take a look at the motherboard model and serial number @manples ?
The bigger serial numbers reported for the motherboards used in CECH-25xx PS3 models are:
JTP-001 = 1-882-481-31
JSD-001 = 1-882-770-31

Im wondering if your motherboard had a bigger serial number (indicating that is newer than the ones i posted above)... maybe it have a 41 at the end of the serial ?

https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions#JSD-001

 

[ElGris]

@sandungas I know the die isn't soldered using some metal soldering haha, but is "soldered" to the IHS. Don't know if it is in that state from factory, or if that occurs due high temperatures. Maybe is thermal epoxy as you stated.

 

[sandungas]

I just added some arrows to indicate where is located the epoxy because when the DIE was broken it was a fight in between the adhesive power of the epoxy VS the thermal glue
In normal conditions the epoxy have a lot more adhesive power than the thermal glue... is just the epoxy is touching the DIE only at the side borders, and the thermal glue was touching the whole top surface
So the total area touching the thermal glue was loooooot bigger than the area touching the epoxy... and the thermal glue won the fight

And i have to insist, is not soldered... the proof is the presence of that light grey substance all around the DIE
Incase it was soldered then is not needed to add any other things... the soldering should be enought

 

[sandungas]

@sandungas I know the die isn't soldered using some metal soldering haha, but is "soldered" to the IHS. Don't know if it is in that state from factory, or if that occurs due high temperatures. Maybe is thermal epoxy as you stated.

Let me correct a detail of what i said, for the record
The normal epoxy we can buy in shops is very strong, but this one should be even stronger because it should be an special formula for industrial use, they uses it all around the CELL and RSX DIE and RSX memory chips too to stick them to the substrate


And the thermal glue is the substance with light grey color... but some of this thermal glues are based on epoxy too (not entirelly, but as one of his chemical components). The result is his adhesive power is smaller than the pure epoxy... but yeah... we could say are epoxy too
I guess a more accurate definition of them would be... "epoxy based thermal adhesives"

All this epoxy based adhesives comes in 2 different containers (usually a couple of syringes), when you mix them they starts a chemical reaction that generates heat and after 5 minutes or so are rock solid
I use to tell to avoid using epoxy based stuff inside electronic equipments because is a "single time" procedure
You know... if something goes wrong is imposible to step back because is imposible to unstick it without breaking something
Also... if at some point you need to dissassemble (whatever you sticked with epoxy) is imposible... so again no step back... you cant do any manteinance or repair of that parts

 

[ElGris]

Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, I'm not saying this is soldered like a real soldering in between two things of similar materia, but in in this case we have an IHS, a couple of different glues, and a broken CELL. Then, if that CELL wasn't sticked or "soldered" to the IHS, why it didn't survive? I understand what you're saying, but this is a common behaviour of two different materias that are well mixed due temperature, provoking a good quimical structure, like those 1-2 glues you have to mixed? Something like that. That's why I say is soldered, because if it didn't this guy should be playing right now.

 

[ElGris]

Let me correct a detail of what i said, for the record
The normal epoxy we can buy in shops is very strong, but this one should be even stronger because it should be an special formula for industrial use, they uses it all around the CELL and RSX DIE and RSX memory chips too to stick them to the substrate


And the thermal glue is the substance with light grey color... but some of this thermal glues are based on epoxy too (not entirelly, but as one of his chemical components). The result is his adhesive power is smaller than the pure epoxy... but yeah... we could say are epoxy too
I guess a more accurate definition of them would be... "epoxy based thermal adhesives"

All this epoxy based adhesives comes in 2 different containers (usually a couple of syringes), when you mix them they starts a chemical reaction that generates heat and after 5 minutes or so are rock solid
I use to tell to avoid using epoxy based stuff inside electronic equipments because is a "single time" procedure
You know... if something goes wrong is imposible to step back because is imposible to unstick it without breaking something
Also... if at some point you need to dissassemble (whatever you sticked with epoxy) is imposible... so again no step back... you cant do any manteinance or repair of that parts

They used that special epoxy on the RSX die? The one in the ram chips is soft enough to remove the IHS with a bit of heat. This epoxy is completely different, as I see it like some kind of moronic idea to prevent people to delid their CELLs, and I think they still used it on some 4xxx models, I believe.

I don't know if you could remove the IHS from these CELLs, since NSC committed the same mistake as the OP. Maybe if you apply enough heat if could be removable? For some reason I don't like this model in particular..

 

[sandungas]

Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, I'm not saying this is soldered like a real soldering in between two things of similar materia, but in in this case we have an IHS, a couple of different glues, and a broken CELL. Then, if that CELL wasn't sticked or "soldered" to the IHS, why it didn't survive? I understand what you're saying, but this is a common behaviour of two different materias that are well mixed due temperature, provoking a good quimical structure, like those 1-2 glues you have to mixed? Something like that. That's why I say is soldered, because if it didn't this guy should be playing right now.

Ok, got you, in this case using the term soldered is a bit confusing. But i guess we could say say both are "bi component adhesives"
The biggest difference is one of them is a "thermal resistant bi component adhesive" (to glue components to the substrate) and the other is a "bi component thermal adhesive" (to glue components to the IHS)
Probably the machine used to apply them in factory have 2 tanks with 2 tubes and at the end of the tubes like 2 syringues, and is applyed (and cured) at a controlled temperature. It should be like a cabinet with an arm


Edit:
I forgot is needed to mix the 2 liquids before applying them... so at the end of the 2 tubes there must a part that joins the 2 liquids into 1... then is applyed with a single "syringue"

 

[sandungas]

They used that special epoxy on the RSX die? The one in the ram chips is soft enough to remove the IHS with a bit of heat. This epoxy is completely different, as I see it like some kind of moronic idea to prevent people to delid their CELLs, and I think they still used it on some 4xxx models, I believe.

I don't know if you could remove the IHS from these CELLs, since NSC committed the same mistake as the OP. Maybe if you apply enough heat if could be removable? For some reason I don't like this model in particular..

I meant all around them (not on top), like in this photo, the pure epoxy is the substance that creates all the curves that can be seen around the 5 black components, is a bit transparent... but mostly it looks like cofee color (or the color and consistency when you melt sugar in a pot by heating it)