PS3 CECHA PS3 YLOD Saga

Discussion in 'Hardware Mods' started by SeanRanklin, Sep 26, 2018.

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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    ok cool so for argument sake and to put those nay sayers away, are u planning on doing the rest of the tonkin caps so u can test those high demanding games out to back up that they work for ur console? ive ordered new caps to run some tests on multiple consoles i have but got the couple weeks wait till they arrive so i'll seek some more research on this until then.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    NEC/TOKIN wants to know your location
    At the moment for me is not necessary, i only use the console for PS1/PS2, which i use it everyday, its more adequate for a HDTV, works fine the way it is, sometimes is used with PS3 Content mainly for Temp Testing, but for PlayStation3 Playback, i use the Slim Models, so there is no need to torture this one.

    I can't recall the user, whom did the full replacement also on a Backwards Compatible PS3 in here, and tested it with GT6 and TLoU, and reported no crashes whatsoever,if you search though the previous early posts on this topic or the NEC one, you might find whom the user is.


    Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
     
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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    yeah i understand that but since u know u still have an issue that it doesn't run at its best, wouldn't u want to do it just to make sure this tonkin cap thing is def real? it would be great to tick it off as a winner, if it were me id be on it like donky kong lol.
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    Heyy, welcome to the thread! Even though my problem is not solved, its refreshing to know that my thread has spread the word for others going through this weird problem.

    Regarding the slow down, mine kinda fizzled away. Must have been a temporary thing.

    Anyway as an update, TTT2 still the only game that shuts the unit down. Temps still running great despite no upgrades to the internals (power supply) and has comfortably ran full trophy playthroughs for Uncharted 1 and Sonic Unleashed, both extremely demanding games.

    Unusual problem for sure, but the unit is still kickin'. Truth be told, She's mainly for display nowdays rather than actual use. :D
     
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    Filipe Santos

    Filipe Santos Member

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    Seen the video and paid attention to his temperature descriptions.
    Really strange behaviour.
    Read most of the pages , if the issue hasn't been fixed I would suggest grab yourself another ps3 a slim version like nakedsnake said , i wouldn't bother looking for all those chips tbh , most of the times when somethings wrong with these consoles it's always not easy to find the cause and fix them unfortunatly and sadly enough , because i know we love our consoles and it's really hard to see this happening so i completely understand the urge and do your best to try and fix it. These days you can grab another ps3 for a good price and you'll play that game no bother and keep your older ps3 for other stuff.
    Sometimes it's better not to mess with it any further else you'll damage it for real.
    Try and contact an expert specialist in electronics where you live and they might be able to help you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    u didnt actually confirm, but i assume u did? but did u end up getting ur mate to do the new caps on ur unit? if u did, which ones did u end up replacing?
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    No, couldnt fix it in the end. i just dont play that game on it and it never gives me a problem :S
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    Yeah i've given up. Something with the archetecture of the way this game specifically runs on the phat model causes the crash. Its absolutely absurd that i can run everything else that i throw at it but it craps out ONLY in gameplay during tekken tag 2.

    I have a slim but the phat's where its at :P
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    UPDATE:

    My console is now shutting of after long periods playing Tekken 5 DR. This has happened 3 times and started about 3 weeks ago after i got back into using the system from a long break.

    This is now two games that the unit shuts off YLOD style. After reading Naked Snakes TOKIN guide, i am certain that one of my capacitors or more arent functioning correctly any more and are slowly deteriorating. Problem is, i have no experience with a soldering iron or modifying boards other than replacing thermal pastes.

    However, i'd like to know if there is a way to identify which NecTokin is most likely the one causing the fault? If i had an idea that a specific capacitor was causing the problem, i'd be more inclined to give this a try myself, but the thought of having to replace all the tokins is deterring me from doing this.

    Any help appreciated
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Yeah, this behaviour matches with the tokins problem, it becomes worst along time, like most electronics thought, if at some point some component have problems and you continue using it could change for worst
    But this applyes specially for capacitors (related with power lines)
    The power supply have capacitors (but you replaced it right ?, so thats not the problem), then the next critical capacitors are the tokins, not sure if the motherboard have more in that power lines for CELL/RSX, but yeah is something related with the CELL/RSX power lines

    Like most of the people writing in the TOKINS thread you seem to have a power drop (or a lot of power ripple) in the CELL/RSX power lines, probably inside CELL/RSX there are some subcircuits more sensitive to the power drops
    Lets say... when the power drop happens that subcircuits crashes first... we dont know which ones are... anyway we are lucky we know there are some games that are stressing them
    The only thing that doesnt matches with the reports of the TOKIN thread is the game that is causing your PS3 to crash doesnt seems mentioned in the TOKINS thread, right ?... but other than that it looks the same

    Also, we should not think in this diagnostics we are doing as something strict written in stone, what your PS3 does looks a bit different (maybe because the crash happens in a different sbcircuit), but the problem could be the same

    There is no way to know which TOKIN is bad because are connected in paralell to each other in 2 groups... think in them as a single capacitor, you have a capacitor for CELL (composed by several TOKINS) and another capacitor for RSX (composed by several TOKINS)
    We dont even know if the problem is in the group for CELL or in the other group for RSX... initially we should start replacing the ones for RSX because the power requirements of RSX are more variable than CELL
    In other words... the TOKINS for RSX works under more stress than the TOKINS for CELL... so the TOKINS for RSX should fail first
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    Hello!

    Yes, actually the Tokin shutdown games also include Tekken Tag 2, however as its not as popular as TLOU or GT6, it does not get mentioned as much, but it is definitely a problematic game for tokin insufficiency problems.

    I might actually post some updates to my story in this thread, as i was posting in other threads recently however if anyone ever has a similar issue to my case, i want them to be able to run across this thread and see the problem start, and rectified.
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    For the mean time, I have my old cech 2002a out and working like an OX! I've had this thing since BRAND NEW in 2009 and it has never let me down. No CFW, playing crazy long sessions, no thermal replacement, only a vaccume on the vents every few years and the fans arent even loud. A solid PS3 indeed.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Nice, this makes you more confident the problem probably is in the tokins :)

    As far i remember you was having the problem in teken but only when booted in a specific format ?. The real disc, iso, and jb formats was having problems, but in pkg format from the store was working ?
    That detail was specially weird and confusing... it makes harder to figure or deduce what is hapenning

    As i mentioned before, with this problems in the tokins there is a point where we cant continue deducing because we dont know exactly what is crashing
    I mean... in that photos made with a microscope of a processor, the circuitry "printed" in the DIE looks like a city with buildings, there is a building more sensitive to the power drops than the others, and is crashing first but we dont know exactly how it happens, and for everyone of you it could be happening in a different way (in other words... the crash starts in a different building)
    This is why i mentioned the way how your PS3 crashes could be a bit different... but overall is the same, the crash happens inside CELL/RSX and is directly related with the power lines
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    I actually had the problem in all formats. Some games including Tekken just would crash all the time.

    It’s definitely the insufficient power to the chips. Hopefully after the tantalums are installed I can give some good news on the problem
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    Okay, I think it's finally time to provide an update to my thread and some closure as well.

    Since I first posted about this problem in September 2018, there has been over 300 posts on this forum related to my problem, most in this thread, some in Naked Snake's famous Tokin thread and others, but the problem remained the same.

    I persisted with using my console in the current condition (turning off only one certain games) for about a year and a half. About two months ago, I noticed that my console YLOD on a game that it has never done that before. I figured it was just a random shutdown, as all PS3's are susceptible to this at one point or another. However when it happened again randomly about a day later, I knew this wasn't a coincidence anymore and my problem was getting worse.

    I finally decided to make the decision of removing the Tokins and soldering tantalums on, in hoping that it would solve my problem. After reading Naked Snake's guide on here carefully I took my console apart again and tried to remove just one Tokin on the bottom of the board, feeding the GPU as many people try replacing this one first and have luck with their problem. However, this is where I ran into a bit of trouble.

    Removing most of the old Tokin from the board wasn't too difficult (minus the positive pole rails that remained in place which i simply couldn't remove with the tools I had). What put me through hell was actually trying to solder the tantalums correctly onto the board. The actual space you have to work with and the tantalums themselves are extremely small. It also didn't help that I had no prior soldering experience, or the correct soldering iron/tip/solder to carry out the task. Here was the end result of the work attempted by myself;

    4E0378E5-BB4C-4EE3-AB3F-649E43462625.jpeg

    E010EEFE-7E0B-4E00-B364-45B965EE118A.jpeg

    There were too many problems with the work I had conducted so I realised i needed external help. This is where I reached out to a fellow board member wrx884, who has worked on repairing PS3s previously and has good knowledge of soldering electronics. After discussion, I shipped the unit out to him to try replacing these capacitors and tidying up the mess I made. At first, only 4 tantalums were installed in place of the Tokin i removed and the unit was tested. The unit fired up again (great news since i was certain that i would have damaged something with my poor soldering work) however the unit would still YLOD on Tekken tag 2.

    Next, the remaining Tokin on the bottom of the board that feeds the GPU was replaced and the unit was tested - no change. Still YLOD present. At this point, both Tokins that feed the CPU on the bottom of the board were also replaced with tantalums and suprise... NO MORE YLOD! Tekken tag 2 was no longer causing shut down in game anymore. The unit was tested in game for over an hour with no change. This confirms that the Tokins that feed the CELL were bad in my case. Also worth noting that once the top caps were removed from the Tokins, there were burn marks present on almost every Tokin on the bottom side of the board. This must be the cause of the Tokins failing over time - they simply burn out. From what exactly? I cannot say. Here are photos of the burned Tokins;

    IMG_3181.JPG

    Here are some photos of the fantastic work done by wrx884!

    IMG_3174.JPG IMG_3175.JPG IMG_3180.JPG

    So, to put a conclusion to this thread, the two Tokins on the bottom of the board that feed the CELL were the cause of my partial shutdown. In about the middle of this thread, the Tokins were suggested to me as the fault, however at the time, there was not much certainty or information out there about Tokins causing these kinds of problems. It was mainly still revolving around the BGA issue.

    Now, I want to stress that while not every YLOD is caused by Tokins, it was definitely the cause of my specific issue and probably many others. The only thing I am confident in saying after all this is that to anyone having PARTIAL YLOD; meaning you are getting the YLOD only on CERTAIN GAMES which are well known for causing this (Gran turismo 6, Black ops 2, TLOU, Tekken Tag 2, Uncharted 2, and a select few others) you can be pretty confident to assume that the YLOD is caused by the Tokins on either the CELL or GPU. In my case, it was the CELL, however it may be the GPU for the next person. The shutdowns were getting worse and if they weren't replaced, there is a chance that the partial YLOD's i was experiencing may turn into full YLODs that arent repairable by simply replacing the Tokins - best to try and save your console before it gets worse.

    If you have this problem and are thinking of doing the job yourself, I dont mean to discourage but I say from experience - make sure are confident with a soldering iron and make sure you have good quality equipment or you run the risk of completely destroying your console. Thanks again to Naked Snake's Tokin thread, wrx884's services offered and everyone else on here who has given me advice.

    HAPPY GAMING!
     

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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    UPDATE:

    Ylods have returned, however they are now triggered randomly. I have no idea what could be causing them this time, however i am posting in Naked snakes tantalum thread at the moment. Will update once i have more information.
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    @mods any chance we can move this thread to help and support - general discussion?
     
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    system100m

    system100m Forum Noob

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    Wow this is one of a thread! I've been trying to find out how to fix my CECHE01 shutting down to a blinking red while playing TTT2 and GT6 and so far this thread has been most helpful.

    So, to summarize the whole story -
    - It started by just shutting down with 3 beeps and blinking red while specifically playing Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and Gran Turismo 6, but worked on all other gamed with no issues
    - At some point it turned out to a general YLOD problem
    - The fix was replacing the CELL's Tokins with tantalums
    - Then is worked with no issues at all for a few days
    - But now the YLOD returned??

    Is this all correct?

    Also, would you please let us know the exact capacitors you've been using for each Tokin you replaced? I see the types are different for each Tokin/area, correct? I'd like to try that too...

    Thanks a lot.
     
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    SeanRanklin

    SeanRanklin Member

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    Wow really, you too with TTT2 and GT6? Lol such a pain. I bet all your shutdowns on TTT2 were in gameplay, never in the menus or cutscenes. Something about the gameplay of this game requires more power that the degraded NEC's can supply to the chips.

    Your summary is correct. Basically the YLOD i have now is triggered at random with no pattern, making it hard to diagnose.

    As for the exact capacitors used, @wrx884 will be able to advise.

    How long have you been experiencing the shutdowns now?
     
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    wrx884

    wrx884 Member

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    TMCMB0E477MTRF are the caps used and only them so far. The only reason ur seeing another type of cap in the photos is @SeanRanklin used his own type originally but the size of the casing on those were too tall so when closing the metal frame they would hit not allowing the frame to close properly potentially causing a short or disrupting other components so they weren't ideal to use.

    TBH they should still have worked if we changed the same amount of tokins out like we did with the others so was just purely the size of the case that we continued with the other ones. If u order some urself always check the data sheets for the size u buy. The max height u can use is 2.8mm on the top side(2.5mm is ideal), any higher and u will run into issues.
     

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