PS3 CECHA PS3 YLOD Saga

mine two 60gbs has 4.82.1 rebug and can run gt6 and the last of us tekken tag 2 without shut down and i have some experience with PS3s change thermal past open ihs of rsx and cell so can say in my opinion i think the problem is NEC TOKIN

if SEANRANKLIN Want to test if console is simple.

put the The Last of Us in you 60gb if the ps3 survive playing this ps3killer game without shuting down so we can say is the tekken the problem
 
Vishera said:
You can always test the voltage,resistance and current of every component in the system until you find a component with incorrect values.

All NAND units even the healthy ones crash with Gran Turismo 6,
Never test your PS3 with Gran Turismo 6.
Click to expand...
But I read earlier in this thread that the voltage cannot be tested correctly if the capacitors are connected to the motherboard??
 
Fanhais said:
mine two 60gbs has 4.82.1 rebug and can run gt6 and the last of us tekken tag 2 without shut down and i have some experience with PS3s change thermal past open ihs of rsx and cell so can say in my opinion i think the problem is NEC TOKIN

if SEANRANKLIN Want to test if console is simple.

put the The Last of Us in you 60gb if the ps3 survive playing this ps3killer game without shuting down so we can say is the tekken the problem
Click to expand...
I don't have The Last Of Us sadly.

Do you know which Nec Tokin is most likely the problem, or how I can test it?
 
I agree with @Fanhais you should do more tests with other weighty games, and even other things like replacing internal hdd, and not playing from original bluray disc because it could be scratched, or dunno, some other things i think you have not mentioned
Naughty dog games squeezes the PS3 well, if you dont have the last of us maybe you have an uncharted ?
Or GTAV, or some god of war ?
SeanRanklin said:
So you are leaning towards a partially damaged Tokin Capacitor? How can I try and diagnose which one is the culprit, again, how could this be present only in a handful of games?

I also dont believe this is due to heat. My unit runs at a good temp (so far) so I am quite confident there.

Also I am not blaming the chips as of yet for my problem. I know that the YLOD flash is due to many different general hardware problems, but my issue is, I have no way of narrowing down the problem.

Do you think it is worth me to test another power supply?
Click to expand...
Im leaning to something related with the power rails that feeds either CELL/RSX
It could be the PSU (root), the voltage regulators incase there is some in between (intermediate), and the tokin capacitors (buffers)

In electronics sometimes happens that is imposible to know where is located the problem exactly, you can try to trace the problem back and is going to take you to a component but you are not completly sure, the only thing you can do is to "replace it and pray"

In some way it makes sense the problem could be related with this, you are thinking in the heat you see in screen, but that sensors only meassures heat inside CELL/RSX, the TOKIN capacitors doesnt have temperature sensors so is imposible to know if are overheating (unless you imagine how to monitor his temperatures on real time but i cant imagine any easy way at all, so lets forget about this and say is imposible to know the temperature of TOKIN capacitors)
And could be overheating because are partially damaged (his capacitance decreased a lot), and everytime CELL/RSX have a requirement peak the capacitor "squeezes" like a worm and overheats on pain, and the PS3 crashes

The power peak requirements should not only happen in triple AAA games with awesome graphics... it can happen also in small games that does a bad management of meory or has some code inefficiencies

And to know which TOKIN capacitor could be damaged, i guess you could take a multimeter (one that allows to meassure capacitance, there are some without it) and see what it shows
What i explained before is you cant know the exact value of capacitors soldered to circuits because the circuit itself and other components are going to add his capacitance
So if we know the original value of the TOKIN capacitor is 1500uf then you should see in the multimeter 1500 or bigger
If you see something under the 1500uf then i guess the capacitor has lost part of his capacitance
 
I had this exact problem. One of my cechL models would shutoff once I started a demanding game, but I could leave it on for hours without failure. I could play stuff like Terraria just fine, but if I would loaded up Deus Ex, once I pressed "start new game," the PS3 would beep and shut down. The first Uncharted game would die after like 4 minutes of playing. No temperature problems.

Eventually the PS3 stopped turning on altogether. I'm pretty sure it was the GPU or CPU having cracked solder joints.
 
try to put Tantalus capacitors in parallel with nec tokin like the Brazilians do in YouTube i understand what they say because i'm Portuguese and and naturally they spoke same language lol
 
Have done a few tests to the tokins by soldering 2 tantalums for a nec tokin (either for CPU or GPU, not both, but in some cases both, mainly the RSX ones, imo) just to see if i got any improvement and in some cases it worked so i replaced the failing tokins with 3 (or 4) tantalums (330uF 2V) and the PS3 was back in a good working order. Not all those cases when you get a powering down in game is because of the tokins can be CPU or GPU failing or can be the power supply (rare cases) or even other component failing/bridged/gnd and the same goes for YLOD, if you do get YLOD it can be cause of some tokin(s).
Also, you don't need to get high temps to get a failing RSX/CPU. Have seen it all. In some cases the temps weren't above 65 Cº (for fat models, especially nands) because all those hours they have and power cicles the solder start to deform and the chip starts to have bad contact and in most cases the chip fails and to have a better success rate you change the chip and don't do just a reball to the actual chip of the system (RSX). And that 5 minutes with no fan that i read in the OP wasn't a good thing. Those chips get hot asap very hot...and for a system with all those years it wasn't "healthy" at all!
 
sandungas said:
I agree with @Fanhais you should do more tests with other weighty games, and even other things like replacing internal hdd, and not playing from original bluray disc because it could be scratched, or dunno, some other things i think you have not mentioned
Naughty dog games squeezes the PS3 well, if you dont have the last of us maybe you have an uncharted ?
Or GTAV, or some god of war ?

Im leaning to something related with the power rails that feeds either CELL/RSX
It could be the PSU (root), the voltage regulators incase there is some in between (intermediate), and the tokin capacitors (buffers)

In electronics sometimes happens that is imposible to know where is located the problem exactly, you can try to trace the problem back and is going to take you to a component but you are not completly sure, the only thing you can do is to "replace it and pray"

In some way it makes sense the problem could be related with this, you are thinking in the heat you see in screen, but that sensors only meassures heat inside CELL/RSX, the TOKIN capacitors doesnt have temperature sensors so is imposible to know if are overheating (unless you imagine how to monitor his temperatures on real time but i cant imagine any easy way at all, so lets forget about this and say is imposible to know the temperature of TOKIN capacitors)
And could be overheating because are partially damaged (his capacitance decreased a lot), and everytime CELL/RSX have a requirement peak the capacitor "squeezes" like a worm and overheats on pain, and the PS3 crashes

The power peak requirements should not only happen in triple AAA games with awesome graphics... it can happen also in small games that does a bad management of meory or has some code inefficiencies

And to know which TOKIN capacitor could be damaged, i guess you could take a multimeter (one that allows to meassure capacitance, there are some without it) and see what it shows
What i explained before is you cant know the exact value of capacitors soldered to circuits because the circuit itself and other components are going to add his capacitance
So if we know the original value of the TOKIN capacitor is 1500uf then you should see in the multimeter 1500 or bigger
If you see something under the 1500uf then i guess the capacitor has lost part of his capacitance
Click to expand...

I have already performed quite a few different tests to the unit suggested by previous posts made in this thread. The only thing i have not tried is the Capacitors and PSU check/replace. I am leaning towards either of the two at this stage.

I have GTA V but had not installed it on this unit, perhaps i'll give it a go today. GTA 4 works flawlessly with no problem. So does Goldeneye Reloaded, Driver san francisco and Tekken . Interestingly TEKKEN HYBRID which has Tekken Tag 2 demo, Tekken Tag 1 remastered and a Tekken movie on the disc, work flawlessly EXCEPT for the Tekken Tag 2 demo. Something about when this game gets into the gameplay just cripples my unit.

Fanhais said:
try to put Tantalus capacitors in parallel with nec tokin like the Brazilians do in YouTube i understand what they say because i'm Portuguese and and naturally they spoke same language lol
Click to expand...

If this really is down to a TOKIN capacitor, i'll need to invest in a good multimeter and test these things. If we look at a CECHA board, am i correct in assuming that i'll have to test every one of these capacitors that i have circled on red in the below image? Or is there only specific ones that need testing?

Untitled.jpg


Sorry, while i have SOME experience with these systems, capacitor checks are way out of my depth, so i'm trying to learn here. This would also mean the thermal compound i applied will basically need to get replaced if i perform this check?

Look forward to some feedback
 
need2burn said:
I had this exact problem. One of my cechL models would shutoff once I started a demanding game, but I could leave it on for hours without failure. I could play stuff like Terraria just fine, but if I would loaded up Deus Ex, once I pressed "start new game," the PS3 would beep and shut down. The first Uncharted game would die after like 4 minutes of playing. No temperature problems.

Eventually the PS3 stopped turning on altogether. I'm pretty sure it was the GPU or CPU having cracked solder joints.
Click to expand...

See, this changes my idea with the capacitors being faulty somewhat. I managed to contact someone who had the same problem with the same game as me on a forum post made 6 years ago. He basically told me it would only shutdown on tekken tag 2, and the way he temporarily fixed this was putting his ps3 in the oven (reflow or what ever its called) This actually stopped the shutdowns for a short period of time before the unit developed constant YLOD refusing to turn on.

This is what I dont understand. If YLOD is caused by something so severe as cracked solder joints, how on earth could the problem persist on CERTAIN GAMES? It's not like the solder only cracks on certain games then rejoins itself on other games? lol I just dont understand.

ruroni said:
Have done a few tests to the tokins by soldering 2 tantalums for a nec tokin (either for CPU or GPU, not both, but in some cases both, mainly the RSX ones, imo) just to see if i got any improvement and in some cases it worked so i replaced the failing tokins with 3 (or 4) tantalums (330uF 2V) and the PS3 was back in a good working order. Not all those cases when you get a powering down in game is because of the tokins can be CPU or GPU failing or can be the power supply (rare cases) or even other component failing/bridged/gnd and the same goes for YLOD, if you do get YLOD it can be cause of some tokin(s).
Also, you don't need to get high temps to get a failing RSX/CPU. Have seen it all. In some cases the temps weren't above 65 Cº (for fat models, especially nands) because all those hours they have and power cicles the solder start to deform and the chip starts to have bad contact and in most cases the chip fails and to have a better success rate you change the chip and don't do just a reball to the actual chip of the system (RSX). And that 5 minutes with no fan that i read in the OP wasn't a good thing. Those chips get hot asap very hot...and for a system with all those years it wasn't "healthy" at all!
Click to expand...

Sorry, just with what you said in the first paragraph, when you soldered the capacitors and you said you noticed an improvement, what exact improvement did you notice vs the problems you were originally experiencing?

I am aware that failing RSX/CPU is not necesarily due to high temps, but rather the expansion/conctraction of the chips due to heat/cooldown, however as i keep mentioning in this thread, how can this only affect a handful of games and not other? A faulty chip with bad joints should show symptoms 100% of the time, and not only on like 5% of game titles.

I know that my failure to properly connect the fan during by first bootup definitely did not do the system any good. Perhaps that action is the reason why my system is having the problems that it is currently, as i can recall testing Tekken before i opened the system up and i believe i played it for around 20 minutes with no issues. Maybe the overheat i caused a capacitor to go partially bad or something?
 
@SeanRanklin i meant that before i assume that a fat ps3 YLOD problem (or like you are having) is only because a failing (or the solder) RSX or CPU i do some tests.
I measure components around the RSX/CPU for resistance if all ok i then solder 2 tantalums to a nec tokin (i start always with RSX ones) i bridge them to gnd and the other to a end of nec tokin. Then i mount it back (always securing and protecting the tantalums so no short around with some kapton tape if some other parts can be in contact with them) turn on the system, if it stays ON with no problems and no power off i then assume the problem was or is the nec tokins. Take them off, solder new tantalums and test again with some high graphic demanding game.
So the improvements is that the system is back and running with no issue regarding to it's YLOD or to it's failing in game and powering off (most of the times, it's a problem with the solder under RSX/CPU).

And yes, i have seen problems like yours the system only had issues with certain games and from experience some were tokins, power problems, but most were the RSX/CPU (one of them or both) starting to loose contact with the board (or a bad RSX, like already written).
What i can write to you, start with the tokins and go from there. I mean, you can solder 2 tantanlums to it and not needing to take them off. They are suppose (nec tokins) to be around 1000uF 2V, so their cap can be lower and in some games that demand a higher graphic power (messing with the power regulation of the RSX/CPU) so the system powers off let's say some panic or some type of protection.

Forgot to add, you can change the bottom ones only or start there (solder 2 tantalums on each tokin). The most i have seen failing were the bottom ones, or when i put tantalums on the bottom the system run without issues (like they cannot be tested on board the best way, so if adding 2 for testing it "fix" the issue, maybe the top ones are also going bad but with these new ones added it's enough for a proper power regulation). But i have change top ones also (think was only a few times and some were because they were damaged (maybe when they tried to take out the IHS, e.g.)).
 
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Ups...can only edit the post for 20 minutes. Didn't know that. So if this one can be merged, so it won't look like a spam, or if it's ok, can be like it is. :)
Just wanted to add that you can solder 2 tantalums to a tokin (start with the ones on RSX side and solder a tantalum on each end you can ground it to any place (you can scratch the green layer protection or solder a thick wire to it's end and to gnd point (short one if possible)) sadly i don't have any pics the ones i made, it's been a while since i've done that lol) and power on the system and see if it won't power off when you play (a high demanding graphic game will the best to test). If it wasn't enough add 2 more to the other tokin (they are 4 on bottom 2 for RSX and 2 for CPU and 4 on top, again 2 for each). If it won't power off, you can let it how it is or change the tokin with tantalum ones (it ain't easy to solder the tantalums (multi layer board, high gnd, makes it difficult), you need a good working station with some power, not a usual/cheap/normal soldering iron, despite you can get fake hakkos machines/tips (or clones) that do the work almost as good for a good price).
Again, this some tests i've done, not all the time the cause is the tokins, but can be yours as that only happens for some games, but i think is something related to power, so it can be the tokins, for example (hope that isn't solder related or RSX goind bad). If it was me doing it, the "end product" will be replacing the tokins (if it really was the problem) but if you decide to try to fix it and it worked, you can let it how it is (2 (or more) tantalums with a wire or solder to the board), because is for you, not as a service for a client, like i wrote, they aren't the easiest thing to solder or take off without the proper tools.
 
ruroni said:
@SeanRanklinForgot to add, you can change the bottom ones only or start there (solder 2 tantalums on each tokin). The most i have seen failing were the bottom ones, or when i put tantalums on the bottom the system run without issues (like they cannot be tested on board the best way, so if adding 2 for testing it "fix" the issue, maybe the top ones are also going bad but with these new ones added it's enough for a proper power regulation). But i have change top ones also (think was only a few times and some were because they were damaged (maybe when they tried to take out the IHS, e.g.)).
Click to expand...

Okay, so what you are saying (forgive me if I misunderstood) is try to solder tantlums on the four tokins which are on the bottom side of the motherboard as per the below picture that i circled in RED?

COK-001_BOTTOM.JPG
 
Yes. But if you want to test, you don't need to solder on the 4 tokins. Again, 2 on each tokin (like i wrote, start with the RSX side ones the right ones on that pic., and you can just start with only the righ most one and go from there). This test will let you know if the tokins are the poblem if the system won't power off in game. I start with one tokin (solder 2 tantalums on it), mount the system (not all just what i need to play a game), test if it improves with no shut downs, and if it isn't enough those 2 tantalums i add 2 more to the other tokin and test again...and so on (then going to the CPU ones if needed)! This was how i "test" those tokins, might not the best way, but hey, it worked out lol (and you don't need to take them off). Is straight forward like i wrote (use 330uF 2V tantalums if you do decide to test this way).
 
Okay thanks for the replies guys. Unfortunately, I dont have the experience or confidence to attempt a job like this myself, so I would have to find someone willing to take a job like this on, but this seems unlikely. I am more inclined to tackle the ones on the bottom of the board, because i would not have to remove the heat shield and reapply paste all over again however.

So far, I have tested the following PS3 games with at least 45 minutes of continuous play:

- Grand theft auto V
- Grand theft auto IV
- Gran turismo 5
- Ridge Racer 7
- Sonic Generations
- Goldeneye Reloaded
- Driver San Francisco
- Metal Gear Solid HD collection
- Mortal Kombat vs DC
- Mortal Kombat 9
- Tekken 6
- Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection
- Mortal Kombat Arcade collection
- Street Fighter third strike

I have also played over 10+ PS2 games with no shutdowns.

NONE of the above games caused any sort of shutdown at all. In most games, the RSX stayed well below 65 anyway. On games like GTA V, it would rise to 66, but as I have web-man auto fan control set at 67, the fans would speed up and the temp would not exceed 67 at all, so it's safe to assume temperatures are fine.

The ONLY games that return problems are:

- Tekken Tag 2
- Tekken Hybrid (Tekken Tag 2 demo)

And they all crash during game play. Menu's or cut scenes will not cause the shutdown. I am thinking it's better to just accept that I cant play this game on this specific unit, until I can find someone who is able to do some soldering work for me, because at this point, the console is still functioning very well for a launch CECHA with the exception of one game, and i dont want to jeopardizing that.
 
I told you 3 pages ago in the thread if the bluray disc is scratched (or full of greasy fingerprints) the game can crash
If you install the gamedata from it can be corrupted too
If you make an ISO from it... you will have the same result... corrupted files everywhere

You could have explained this at the first post of the thread, and the answer would have been this:

Download the IRD of the game from here: http://jonnysp.bplaced.net/
Make a dump/copy of the bluray disc files and make a IRD verification of them
 
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