PS5 Changing Liquid Metal for something else?

ElGris

ElGris

Senior Member
That's the question I have now. To change or not to change..

After seeing what LM can do after some months of use to a regular heatsink and DIE, It will be safest to change it right away (for a good thermal compound) leaving you without warranty, or waiting for the warranty to expire?


I don't know, in theory, Sony "already" looked for these issues and created the ultimate LM formula specially for the PS5, and it seems is using a special contact surface in the heatsink that makes contact with the die, 'cause LM damages alluminum creating a different and not wanted new alloy.

The dried LM also stickes very powerfully to the die in normal situations, which I think is very dangerous, and since people say Sony sealed it as it were a capsule, we'll have to wait for people to discover how good went after some months.

I don't wanna be changing, my PS5 in the next feeew years..

 
from my experience, when using liquid metal you have to let it first "burn in" for a while (a few months) until it builds up a kind of alloy to heatspreader and heatsink. after that you just have to apply just tiny bit more of it without cleaning up and after that it won't dry again
 
They probably do not have GALLIUM in the LM, as this would be corrosive. I've heard of some indium based LM recipes that sounded promising.
 
psykosis said:
They probably do not have GALLIUM in the LM, as this would be corrosive. I've heard of some indium based LM recipes that sounded promising.
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it is only extremely corrosive to aluminum in conjunction with water from my experience.

I once have used it on the heatsink from a L-model (this bulky twin heatsink) just for fun, and when I have removed it you could see some small traces of corrosion on the plates. but only after it came in contact with water, the whole plate corroded in seconds leaving only some powder of those thick plates. after that test, I've started to install in some decent copper based pc heatsinks

though, unfortunately ps3 heatsinks are pure aluminum and only processor heatspreaders are copper based
 
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If I'm not mistaken they use galinstan, which is an alloy of gallium, indium and other metals that reduce a bit the aggressive behaviour to other metals and lowers the melting temperature to the point that the alloy is liquid at room temperature. I think it's the same alloy used in mercury-free thermometers.

I'd say that the liquid metal used in the ps5 is not that aggressive and if it were, the effects that it causes would take a lot of time to manifest and destroy the chip or heatsink.
 
The question of changing LM in PS5 doesn't make sense because we don't have the tools to measure APU health.

You can remove LM & apply Arctic Silver or Kryonaut etc but how effective it will be, you can't find out.

In PC we have various diagnostic tools to measure CPU health, fan speeds etc that clearly tells you the situation. You won't have any such option for PS5. In PS3 also you have the option to check CPU health by WMM etc & some homebrew also exist for JB PS4 to measure APU Temps.

So without having the base benchmark for PS5 APU on LM, it doesn't make sense to install a different cooling solution.
 
The current best advice for PS5 is to avoid currently. If you don't get it stolen from an amazon driver, or get sent cat food, and actually make it past the bot buys on walmart.com or find it locally, you'll be gambling to see if it's one of the many lemons out there that are blanking out. This isn't limited to the PS5 but also the XB1X and XB1S as well. I'd wait for them to iron out the bugs from this beta launch and the prices to lower a bit to something more reasonable. Usually this will happen within six ish months.
 
Historically, most first generation of consoles have issues. The company learns from issues & revises models. It takes a 1-2 of years for company to optimize hardware & software for best results. Also game development on new gen consoles take time. I would advice to wait at least one year for next gen.
 
I would not change the liquid metal, we are talking about chemicals and usually the chemical reactions are not much intuitive, we dont know the chemical composition of the LM used by sony, so... better dont mess around with it :D

Eventually some geeks will start publishing some info and reviews of the sony LM... also some other companies are going to study (and improve) his composition and will release alternative products designed for the PS5... for a bigger price of course
Keep in mind the LM used by sony is intended for industrial use, in a range of qualities from 0 to 10... lets say is going to be around quality 6 or 7 but not more, is completly normal, nothing to complain about the quality of the sony LM by now but better dont mess around with it because we dont know how is made
 
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I just found this video. At the end the liquid metal PS5 runs (in theory) cooler than the one with thermal paste.

 
HONEYWELL PTM7950 Thermic Pad is the only solution for right now i guess
A polish youtuber already install them , you can see his video here (start at 1:02:00)
 
sandungas said:
I would not change the liquid metal, we are talking about chemicals and usually the chemical reactions are not much intuitive, we dont know the chemical composition of the LM used by sony, so... better dont mess around with it :D

Eventually some geeks will start publishing some info and reviews of the sony LM... also some other companies are going to study (and improve) his composition and will release alternative products designed for the PS5... for a bigger price of course
Keep in mind the LM used by sony is intended for industrial use, in a range of qualities from 0 to 10... lets say is going to be around quality 6 or 7 but not more, is completly normal, nothing to complain about the quality of the sony LM by now but better dont mess around with it because we dont know how is made
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Kipex

il y a 3 semaines (modifié)
Forget about Liquid Metal and start using something better: Honeywell PTM7950 Super Highly Thermally Conductive PCM Pad , and you're not going back to that crap that is Liquid Metal , Already most good services in Europe use it in PS5 and earlier models , Works very well on laptops too . Thermal Grizzly paste is not suitable for PS5, the best at the moment is Honeywell PTM7950, in our service it has already been tested on 323 PS5 units and 457 PS4 units and after more than 9 months they all work perfect. Thermal Grizzly paste is not even comparable to Honeywell PTM7950. it's a waste of your money to buy a Thermal Grizzly. Just remember to buy only the original Honeywell PTM7950.
 
ElGris said:
I just found this video. At the end the liquid metal PS5 runs (in theory) cooler than the one with thermal paste.

Click to expand...
Kipex

il y a 3 semaines (modifié)
Forget about Liquid Metal and start using something better: Honeywell PTM7950 Super Highly Thermally Conductive PCM Pad , and you're not going back to that crap that is Liquid Metal , Already most good services in Europe use it in PS5 and earlier models , Works very well on laptops too . Thermal Grizzly paste is not suitable for PS5, the best at the moment is Honeywell PTM7950, in our service it has already been tested on 323 PS5 units and 457 PS4 units and after more than 9 months they all work perfect. Thermal Grizzly paste is not even comparable to Honeywell PTM7950. it's a waste of your money to buy a Thermal Grizzly. Just remember to buy only the original Honeywell PTM7950.
 
Okay let's nip some claims in the bud. First of all this Honeywell PTM7950, is NOT suitable as a replacement for the liquid metal. But don't just take my word vs the youtuber. Now I'm sure you're going to protest "but they say!". I'm not interested in hearsay. I'm interested in the TECHNICAL specifications of the material in question and how it compares vs Thermal Paste and vs Liquid metal.

So first off lets source our thermal conductivity. We're going direct to the source of the claimed pad that is superior.

https://industrial.honeywell.com/us...terials/phase-change-materials/ptm7000-series

As we can see there the PTM-7950 has a thermal conductivity PER the manufacturer of at BEST case 8.5 W/m-K(6.0-8.5 W/m-K range per the tech specifications FROM honeywell).

Now let's compare what is the thermal conductivity of conventional liquid metal. This is a bit harder but the consensus seems to net at 43-73 W/m-K range. We'll use the Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut to compare. 73 W/m-K is its thermal conductivity.

Now let's compare these numbers vs traditional thermal paste(all while keeping in mind thermal paste is meant to be a -GAP- filler to try and maximize the Die to metal contact. Something the pad will NOT be capable of). If we use something like Arctic MX-4 we'll have a thermal conductivity of approximately 8.5 W/mK... notice anything there? The best case scenario of the PTM-7950 pad is the best case scenario of the thermal paste. So pray tell me if factually conventional thermal paste was capable of adequately cooling the die WHY would Sony spring for a significantly more expensive solution? The answer is they wouldn't.

73/8.5=8.58 times larger. But let's just short that to 850%.

Liquid metal in this example is 850% MORE thermally conductive than thermal paste. Further the honeywell PTM7950 as a thermal PAD is going to -prevent- any die to metal heatsink contact which is going to -further- reduce its performance vs traditional thermal paste. Let alone its performance vs the liquid metal.

tldr: Liquid Metal is MULTIPLE times more thermally conductive than both traditional thermal paste and the honeywell pads. Further the gap filling pad will most likely not allow die to metal heat sink contact as unlike the paste it will NOT move/shift to only fill gaps. Sony would not have spent more for the ps5 complicated/expensive thermal material unless they absolutely required it. If you're especially CONCERNED about the liquid metal get the unit serviced so that it can have additional conformal coating applied to the CPU and other areas to protect against potential liquid metal where it should not be. Then only use the unit in a horizontal orientation. For the ps4 or other units designed/intended around thermal paste the Honeywell ptm7950 pad MIGHT be sufficient.
 
Squiglemouse said:
Okay let's nip some claims in the bud. First of all this Honeywell PTM7950, is NOT suitable as a replacement for the liquid metal. But don't just take my word vs the youtuber. Now I'm sure you're going to protest "but they say!". I'm not interested in hearsay. I'm interested in the TECHNICAL specifications of the material in question and how it compares vs Thermal Paste and vs Liquid metal.

So first off lets source our thermal conductivity. We're going direct to the source of the claimed pad that is superior.

https://industrial.honeywell.com/us...terials/phase-change-materials/ptm7000-series

As we can see there the PTM-7950 has a thermal conductivity PER the manufacturer of at BEST case 8.5 W/m-K(6.0-8.5 W/m-K range per the tech specifications FROM honeywell).

Now let's compare what is the thermal conductivity of conventional liquid metal. This is a bit harder but the consensus seems to net at 43-73 W/m-K range. We'll use the Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut to compare. 73 W/m-K is its thermal conductivity.

Now let's compare these numbers vs traditional thermal paste(all while keeping in mind thermal paste is meant to be a -GAP- filler to try and maximize the Die to metal contact. Something the pad will NOT be capable of). If we use something like Arctic MX-4 we'll have a thermal conductivity of approximately 8.5 W/mK... notice anything there? The best case scenario of the PTM-7950 pad is the best case scenario of the thermal paste. So pray tell me if factually conventional thermal paste was capable of adequately cooling the die WHY would Sony spring for a significantly more expensive solution? The answer is they wouldn't.

73/8.5=8.58 times larger. But let's just short that to 850%.

Liquid metal in this example is 850% MORE thermally conductive than thermal paste. Further the honeywell PTM7950 as a thermal PAD is going to -prevent- any die to metal heatsink contact which is going to -further- reduce its performance vs traditional thermal paste. Let alone its performance vs the liquid metal.

tldr: Liquid Metal is MULTIPLE times more thermally conductive than both traditional thermal paste and the honeywell pads. Further the gap filling pad will most likely not allow die to metal heat sink contact as unlike the paste it will NOT move/shift to only fill gaps. Sony would not have spent more for the ps5 complicated/expensive thermal material unless they absolutely required it. If you're especially CONCERNED about the liquid metal get the unit serviced so that it can have additional conformal coating applied to the CPU and other areas to protect against potential liquid metal where it should not be. Then only use the unit in a horizontal orientation. For the ps4 or other units designed/intended around thermal paste the Honeywell ptm7950 pad MIGHT be sufficient.
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It appear that soon liquid metal will be a think of the past for Sony Console :
https://www.gizmochina.com/2023/01/23/sony-ps5-pro-launch-april/
 
John1971 said:
It appear that soon liquid metal will be a think of the past for Sony Console :
https://www.gizmochina.com/2023/01/23/sony-ps5-pro-launch-april/
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I see that rather than responding to the content of the post you're leapfrogging to rumors. Rumors are worth extraordinarily little. I'll believe it when Sony announces it or we have -actual- production photo leaks. Not until.
John1971 said:
Hum.....
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This is why where Liquid metal is used it's NOT used with bare aluminum or copper. It's always accompanied by a nickel or OTHER resistant material coating to protect against that very issue. The ps5 heatsink is no different. It's nickel coated where it will be exposed to liquid metal. It's not that hard to understand. The bigger issue liquid metal wise has more or less always been that it's electrically conductive so you need to protect against accidental shorts. Which again the entire unit will have been engineered with in mind.


tldr: Liquid metals when used correctly are perfectly fine. Stop telling folks to use an inferior product that is widely out of spec with what it seeks to replace that may bring actual issues to the die due to increased temperatures that the console likely was NOT made with in mind.
 
well, the old story to be or not to be

imo, if you are not limited with Aluminium and if you are experienced enough with LM (precaution and insulation), definately go for it. you won't get better results with any other paste and no other paste can last that long. though, as I already have told, it has to be re-applied after some months, cause it will build up some alloy with Copper (even Nickel plated). but after that, you won't have to worry and it won't dry that easy or fast and no, it does not corrode Copper.

disadvantage is, it is very expensive if you buy it as paste, but it is much cheaper if you buy the Gallinstan chemical, which is the same. last time I have bought 10g for about 20€

not sure and not tested myself, if you alloy Aluminium yourself with Nickel, it also can withstand LM (think I have seen some video about it)
 
Sorry for jumping in, but are there 1000's of reported incidents of PS5's getting leaking liquid metal damage?
Should we rest our PS5's horizontally?
 
Atari800 said:
Sorry for jumping in, but are there 1000's of reported incidents of PS5's getting leaking liquid metal damage?
Should we rest our PS5's horizontally?
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Just reports of units coming into shops with the liquid metal leaning one way or another with the POTENTIAL for leakage if there's an issue with the seal. The issue is it's impossible to accurately see how the liquid metal is seating without disassembling and thereby disturbing the liquid metals seating. Further the real crux is the paranoia is because if the seal -isn't- good it COULD leak(and come into contact with components and short them out). Not that there's significant documentable numbers of units with liquid metal leakage leading to console failure.

This has caused people with a poor ability to read/understand the possible concerns/issues(and how to mitigate possible risks!) and blow it up into "They all gonna dieeeee if you put them vertical!"

tldr: if you're especially concerned resting the console horizontally means there's no possibility of the hypothetical issue. I don't personally think this is an issue at the rate folks are blowing it up as(this is NOT anywhere near the level of modern stick drift issues which jfc are constant with the switch's and even the dual sense and is arguably a bigger issue you're far more likely to be impacted by). If it was we would have seen VERY significant hardware revisions. And simply put we haven't seen that.
 
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