DS3 not charging

[snkplkn]

@sandungas


I have a problem. My L1 is not working. I checked the controller and realized that plastic conductive film has gotten broken just at edge of L1. This must have happened while i was assembling/disassembling controller several times.

The tear on plastic film is about 3-4 mm but unfortunately sufficient to break the connection of L1. How can i fix it?

Should i buy new plastic film? Can i put a tiny solder on tear to fix it?

I tried to find more info on this plastic conductive film. But not much luck. Maybe i don't know the exact name of this thing. From what i figure, its a plastic film which carries conductive material for circuit path.

On Alibaba and Amazon international, there are many buying options. But i can't find anything on domestic Amazon (Amazon India).

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ps3-controller-conductive-film.html

 

[topantita]

my DS3 always disconnect it self when i play a random game. the battery is full or one strip blinking.. It is work normally when i plug in to USB cable and still working when i plug it off, but after several time it disconnect again

 

[sandungas]

@sandungas


I have a problem. My L1 is not working. I checked the controller and realized that plastic conductive film has gotten broken just at edge of L1. This must have happened while i was assembling/disassembling controller several times.

The tear on plastic film is about 3-4 mm but unfortunately sufficient to break the connection of L1. How can i fix it?

Should i buy new plastic film? Can i put a tiny solder on tear to fix it?

I tried to find more info on this plastic conductive film. But not much luck. Maybe i don't know the exact name of this thing. From what i figure, its a plastic film which carries conductive material for circuit path.

On Alibaba and Amazon international, there are many buying options. But i can't find anything on domestic Amazon (Amazon India).

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ps3-controller-conductive-film.html

Is named the Ribbon Circuit Board (or RCB in short), the keyword is that is a "circuit board" (yeah, printed on a plastic sheet but this doesnt makes much difference in comparison whith other electrical circuits)
Im mentioning it because there is a section in wiki named like that, also if at some point you search for them in online shops use variants of that name to find it
https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/DualShock_3#Ribbon_Circuit_Boards
Is not posible to solder in it, dont try it or you will make a hole in the plastic

The only ghetto fix i think it could work to fix a cut is to create a solid glue/epoxy with very fine carbon particles
Is hard to explain, there are several tutorials in internet that teachs you how to create this glues (one in ifixit if i remember correctly)

The point is the carbon particles (taken from a pencil) are electrical conductive, and the glue keeps them in place
You can literally paint a electrical circuit with this glue on top of whatever material you want

------------
The alternative are some pens made for this purpose, you can repair damaged circuit tracks just by painting in top of them, but uses silver particles and are very expensive

my DS3 always disconnect it self when i play a random game. the battery is full or one strip blinking.. It is work normally when i plug in to USB cable and still working when i plug it off, but after several time it disconnect again

This is the battery, probably weared out, or (if you are lucky) the chip controling the charging have incorrect records

Im not sure if the li-ion battery of the dualshock3 have this problem, but many laptop batteries have it
The point is the battery itself have a chip that is powered by the battery itself... so is always alive like an spy meassuring times, battery levels and everything you do with the battery

Incase the chip gets incorrect records it could happen that the battery only charges up to 30% max (but the battery cells are ok, ready to be charged is just the chip doesnt allows them to charge fully)

The only way to reset it is by emptying the battery completly... down to the point where the chip doesnt gets any voltage from the battery itself
This looks easy to do in concept, but in the practise is not so easy because the batteries never gets 0% empty. The chip always keeps some chargue for his own survival :P

So... what you need to do is to empty the battery normally just by playing in the PS3... then when it turns off, try to turn it on again... and again... and again
And after that you need to disconnect the battery from the dualshock... and connect something to its pins (like a PC fan with 2 wires and needles to the battery pins) to empty it completly

The fan probably will keep spinning some minutes... and eventually it will stop.. at that point you are 100% sure is empty... and as a consequence of this the chip resets and the old records gets lost

 

[topantita]

This is the battery, probably weared out, or (if you are lucky) the chip controling the charging have incorrect records

Im not sure if the li-ion battery of the dualshock3 have this problem, but many laptop batteries have it
The point is the battery itself have a chip that is powered by the battery itself... so is always alive like an spy meassuring times, battery levels and everything you do with the battery

I am also thinking the battery is the problem, but still no idea how to calibrate it
your explanation is very detail, i am so appreciate it. i will try to fix my DS3 like your steps

thank you ☺

 

[snkplkn]

Is named the Ribbon Circuit Board (or RCB in short), the keyword is that is a "circuit board" (yeah, printed on a plastic sheet but this doesnt makes much difference in comparison whith other electrical circuits)
Im mentioning it because there is a section in wiki named like that, also if at some point you search for them in online shops use variants of that name to find it
https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/DualShock_3#Ribbon_Circuit_Boards
Is not posible to solder in it, dont try it or you will make a hole in the plastic

The only ghetto fix i think it could work to fix a cut is to create a solid glue/epoxy with very fine carbon particles
Is hard to explain, there are several tutorials in internet that teachs you how to create this glues (one in ifixit if i remember correctly)

The point is the carbon particles (taken from a pencil) are electrical conductive, and the glue keeps them in place
You can literally paint a electrical circuit with this glue on top of whatever material you want

------------
The alternative are some pens made for this purpose, you can repair damaged circuit tracks just by painting in top of them, but uses silver particles and are very expensive

This is the battery, probably weared out, or (if you are lucky) the chip controling the charging have incorrect records

Im not sure if the li-ion battery of the dualshock3 have this problem, but many laptop batteries have it
The point is the battery itself have a chip that is powered by the battery itself... so is always alive like an spy meassuring times, battery levels and everything you do with the battery

Incase the chip gets incorrect records it could happen that the battery only charges up to 30% max (but the battery cells are ok, ready to be charged is just the chip doesnt allows them to charge fully)

The only way to reset it is by emptying the battery completly... down to the point where the chip doesnt gets any voltage from the battery itself
This looks easy to do in concept, but in the practise is not so easy because the batteries never gets 0% empty. The chip always keeps some chargue for his own survival :P

So... what you need to do is to empty the battery normally just by playing in the PS3... then when it turns off, try to turn it on again... and again... and again
And after that you need to disconnect the battery from the dualshock... and connect something to its pins (like a PC fan with 2 wires and needles to the battery pins) to empty it completly

The fan probably will keep spinning some minutes... and eventually it will stop.. at that point you are 100% sure is empty... and as a consequence of this the chip resets and the old records gets lost

I am thinking of several solutions.


1. Buy new ribbon film if i can find it. Few weeks ago, i was checking Amazon India and saw those ribbon films pretty cheap. Unfortunately i don't see those buying options now but i will try to search more including local shop.

2. Buy broken controller junk and extract their ribbon film. But i don't know if ribbon from it will be compatible with my controller.

3. Repair existing ribbon film. I am thinking of several options.

1. The tear is only few mm that is breaking the connection of L1. What if i scratch small area of ribbon film near the tear with fine sandpaper to expose that part of circuit? Then i can apply some type of electrically conducting tape on it. Will that solve the problem?

https://www.amazon.in/KaptonTape-Copper-Conductive-Adhesive-Length/dp/B009KB86BU

2. Repair tear with conducting adhesive. Again rub the part of ribbon film with sandpaper and apply electrically conducting glue.

https://www.amazon.in/Generic-Condu...ctrical+conductive+glue&qid=1572803539&sr=8-2

3. Apply metallic tape near the tear to protect ribbon film. Then apply solder on it. The ribbon film may melt on that tiny portion but metallic tape will keep the integrity of ribbon film. That way electrical connection will be made.

4. Any other type of conducting paste that can be applied locally and secured with ordinary tape to secure the connection. Any options on this?


----------------------

Another question. Why these ribbon films have different code? Like SA1QXXXX. Can these be interchanged?

All DS3 have same buttons and must have same circuit. So why there are different codes/models of these ribbon films?

-----------------------------

Just found what i was looking for. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

https://www.amazon.in/TCOS-TECH-Rep...ATYXWV1B6VB&psc=1&refRID=VKE64ESDJATYXWV1B6VB

 

[sandungas]

Another question. Why these ribbon films have different code? Like SA1QXXXX. Can these be interchanged?

All DS3 have same buttons and must have same circuit. So why there are different codes/models of these ribbon films?

The different DS3 models are not the same, they have small differences in the geometry and dimmensions of the plastic shell, most of that RCB's are compatible with others or can be modded to adapt them (cutting a bit of plastic and things like that), but there are other RCB's that cant be adapted
Incase of buying a new one the best thing you can do is to buy exactly the same RCB you had

There is an (incomplete) table in wiki where it can be seen the compatibility of the RCB's with each Dualshock3 model

1. Buy new ribbon film if i can find it. Few weeks ago, i was checking Amazon India and saw those ribbon films pretty cheap. Unfortunately i don't see those buying options now but i will try to search more including local shop.

Just found what i was looking for. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

https://www.amazon.in/TCOS-TECH-Rep...ATYXWV1B6VB&psc=1&refRID=VKE64ESDJATYXWV1B6VB

Sure buying a new RCB would solve the problem, i had to buy one some time ago, the good thing of buying a new one is the copper contacts (at a border of the RCB) are going to be shiny and perfect, no rust/oxidation in them... so they will have a perfect conductivity

Keep in mind the manufacturing costs of a RCB like that are very small, and probably they have a revenue of 300% or 400% in comparison with the public price... so are not so cheap

The advantage of the other solutions is that are free

2. Buy broken controller junk and extract their ribbon film. But i don't know if ribbon from it will be compatible with my controller.

Probably not worthy, the copper contants at the border of the RCB are going to be rusted/oxidiced... this is something normal... it can be seen visually beause the copper lost his original "goldie" color and became brown

And just before you ask for it... is imposible to remove that brown material by any mean... is something that happens at atomic level and not only in the surface of the copper

3. Repair existing ribbon film. I am thinking of several options.

1. The tear is only few mm that is breaking the connection of L1. What if i scratch small area of ribbon film near the tear with fine sandpaper to expose that part of circuit? Then i can apply some type of electrically conducting tape on it. Will that solve the problem?

https://www.amazon.in/KaptonTape-Copper-Conductive-Adhesive-Length/dp/B009KB86BU

Hmmm, interesting, i was not aware that tape existed... but as curiosity sake, is needed to think in this at microscopic level
The material of the tape doesnt matters much, what matters is the material of the adhesive glue, because what touches the circuit is the adhesive (not the tape)
So... the glue needs to have integrated in it some particles of electrical conductive materials... it could be a glue with silver, copper, carbon, whatever

Not sure how are made that tapes, but yeah, it could work

2. Repair tear with conducting adhesive. Again rub the part of ribbon film with sandpaper and apply electrically conducting glue.

https://www.amazon.in/Generic-Condu...ctrical+conductive+glue&qid=1572803539&sr=8-2

4. Any other type of conducting paste that can be applied locally and secured with ordinary tape to secure the connection. Any options on this?

This is what i was suggesting you to do... you can do it at home for free, check this tutorial
https://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Conductive-Glue-and-Glue-a-Circuit/

You know... it worths a try... incase it doesnt works just trow the damaged RCB to the trash bin, and buy a new one

3. Apply metallic tape near the tear to protect ribbon film. Then apply solder on it. The ribbon film may melt on that tiny portion but metallic tape will keep the integrity of ribbon film. That way electrical connection will be made.

Dont touch the RCB with a solder iron, seriouslly, the only thing you are going to achieve is to instant-finish the experiments
The plastic retracts and you will have a big and deformed plastic around, and the copper dissapears too... lets say the mixture of melted plastic and small bits of copper becomes a garbage substance

 

[snkplkn]

I am also thinking the battery is the problem, but still no idea how to calibrate it
your explanation is very detail, i am so appreciate it. i will try to fix my DS3 like your steps

thank you ☺

The problem could also be the connecting wire and battery connector/socket linking to PCB.

One of my DS3 had the connecting wire almost breaking at several points. Controller is very old so thin wire plastic insulation is decayed and cracking. So i patched it with plastic tape at some points.

Also you should see if your battery is properly connected. Try disconnected and reconnecting the battery socket. And do it gently or you may break it.

 

[snkplkn]

Keep in mind the manufacturing costs of a RCB like that are very small, and probably they have a revenue of 300% or 400% in comparison with the public price... so are not so cheap

On Alibaba and Aliexpress, these RCBs are listed very cheaply for few cents. But problem is that it only accepts MasterCard (international) & other options like webmoney. I don't have these payment options. Also shipping is a big problem as it shows many weeks by normal delivery. The express delivery costs as much as the cost of new DS3 itself. It only makes sense for wholesalers to buy from China at these rates.

The material of the tape doesnt matters much, what matters is the material of the adhesive glue, because what touches the circuit is the adhesive (not the tape)
So... the glue needs to have integrated in it some particles of electrical conductive materials... it could be a glue with silver, copper, carbon, whatever

That's what i was thinking. Though description says it has conductive acrylic adhesive. I am still not sure. But i will try to find out more in local market.

 

[sandungas]

Is better to do it at home, check in google, there are many tutorials from people explaining his recipes

Basically, you need a glue (that probably you have at home) + particles of carbon graphite (that you have at home for sure)
You know... from a pencil

Place a paper on a table, then take a file from your toolbox, and use the pencil to "paint" in the file.... this is going to create a lot of graphite powder

Add glue to the graphite powder... mixture it well... and you have it

 

[snkplkn]

ok i will try it if everything else fails.

Actually i had better approach. I already have Pencil leads. They come with pen type automatic pencils for refills. I can simply squash them and make a fine powder then mix it with some glue to make paste.

https://www.amazon.in/KABEER-ART-Me...0A821HHQWT2&psc=1&refRID=0GGTGB9QB0A821HHQWT2

But i am not sure of its conductivity.

 

[sandungas]

ok i will try it if everything else fails.

Is the other way around, this is the first thing you should try because you can do it fror free
Also, because is not a destructive process... you just need to add a substance (the home made conductive glue)... incase it doesnt works you remove that substance and you are back at step one

And incase everything else fails is when you need to spend money, by buying a new RCB exactly like the one you had

 

[snkplkn]

Well, when i checked Amazon India. The RCB showed only 2 remaining in stock. And it only costs about $3 (delivery cost included!). So i ordered it just to be safe if its unavailable in future. RCB is also of my exact model.

 

[snkplkn]

Is better to do it at home, check in google, there are many tutorials from people explaining his recipes

Basically, you need a glue (that probably you have at home) + particles of carbon graphite (that you have at home for sure)
You know... from a pencil

Place a paper on a table, then take a file from your toolbox, and use the pencil to "paint" in the file.... this is going to create a lot of graphite powder

Add glue to the graphite powder... mixture it well... and you have it

@sandungas I thought you would be interested in knowing this outcome.

So i tried this pencil powder and glue to fix the circuit break. I use a very fine sand paper to expose the contacts circuit of ribbon cable. Then applied the paste on it. I applied a small piece of plastic tape on opposite side of ribbon so that the ribbon & glue remain stable. I reassembled controller but no result. So i let it dry for 1 day. Now the controller button is working. So Pencil powder is doing the trick. Though i noticed that i have to push my L1 slightly harder than usual. It doesn't have original sensitivity. However i can play all games without any problems.

 

[sandungas]

@sandungas I thought you would be interested in knowing this outcome.

So i tried this pencil powder and glue to fix the circuit break. I use a very fine sand paper to expose the contacts circuit of ribbon cable. Then applied the paste on it. I applied a small piece of plastic tape on opposite side of ribbon so that the ribbon & glue remain stable. I reassembled controller but no result. So i let it dry for 1 day. Now the controller button is working. So Pencil powder is doing the trick. Though i noticed that i have to push my L1 slightly harder than usual. It doesn't have original sensitivity. However i can play all games without any problems.

View attachment 27537


View attachment 27538

Haha, pretty cool, the dark color of the glue indicates it had lot of graphite, thats good
The low conductivity (that requires you to push the buttons a bit harder) maybe is because the graphite powder was not much fine (but i cant imagine a nice way to filter it to remove the bigger particles)
Or maybe it was the proportion of "glue versus graphite"... but in this case is normal to not find the perfect recipe at the first try... i guess this is ike cooking, is needed to experiment a bit with it
As i could see in the different tutorials i found in google there is lot of ways to create this conductive glue at home, it seems to be the kind of thing that evryone have his own "recipe of the chef"




------------------------
Edit:
Btw, remember to "reset" the DS3 (by pressing the button hidden at the back), because maybe this is going to "update" some internal settings indirectly related with the sensitivity of that button
I mean... in the same way are stored some values to know where is the center of the sticks, the other lines for some of the buttons are "monitored" at all times to meassure his resistivity

 

[snkplkn]

I also suspect that Glue (non conductive) + Graphite (conductive) is not giving full conductivity like that of original circuit. Hence slightly hard press is needed for button. Though its not a real problem as i can play all games without any bother. By the way, a genuine conductive glue (though would be little expensive) may be good solution to fix these kind of RCB breaks.

 

[sandungas]

I also suspect that Glue (non conductive) + Graphite (conductive) is not giving full conductivity like that of original circuit. Hence slightly hard press is needed for button. Though its not a real problem as i can play all games without any bother. By the way, a genuine conductive glue (though would be little expensive) may be good solution to fix these kind of RCB breaks.

The triggers of the DS3 have a gummy membrane made of silicone with 2 "circles" painted with some kind of black ink
That black ink is electrical conductive too (and i guess is made of graphite too), so is important
If at some point you clean that membranes i suggest to do it with warm water + soap (dont use alcohol or other substances that could damage it)
And dont insist too much "rubbing" in the circles with black ink.... if at some point the black ink gets lost you have ruined the membrane

Anyway... what i wanted to suggest you is to try to swap (left by right) that membranes for the triggers
As far i remember both have exactly the same shape... so you could replace one by the other
The goal is to verify if the L1 button still have problems after replacing the membrane... you know, maybe is a coincidence and your glue is working perfect, but the problem is in the membrane

--------
There are some manufacturers that sells pencils with conductive ink... are nice because the fact is a pencil it allows you to paint with it (everybody knows how to do it, even kids) and it allows to do it very preciselly (very thin lines, you could even use a ruler to draw perfectly straight lines)
The 2 problems of this pencils are that are a bit expensive because the ink contains silver powder.. and the fact if we buy one of them we are supposed to use it entirelly in the incoming... dunno 3 or 4 months
Otherway, if you dont use it the ink of the pencil is going to get dry (i guess in something like 6 months or so the ink is going to "expire")
If you are going to use it a lot (to empty it) then is worthy to buy one of hat pencils because works nice, but if you just need to do a small repair is better to do it at home like you did

 

[snkplkn]

Actually before Pencil powder fix, my DS3 was working great with new RCB i had earlier ordered & replaced. So one day i decided to clean my controller and saw some sticky dirt on RCB. So i thought, why not clean RCB with IPA (i know i was stupid). That ruined that RCB. I couldn't find new RCB in this lockdown Covid situation.

Then luckily, i still had the original broken RCB. So i thought why not fix it with that Pencil powder solution you recommended? Fortunately, i was lucky and it worked. I still plan to buy new RCB but stocks are not available due to Covid situation.

https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07LDDVGG2...olid=2ZFCJDB6VFMJO&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Never ever use IPA on RCB is another lesson i learned.

 

[snkplkn]

The triggers of the DS3 have a gummy membrane made of silicone with 2 "circles" painted with some kind of black ink
That black ink is electrical conductive too (and i guess is made of graphite too), so is important
If at some point you clean that membranes i suggest to do it with warm water + soap (dont use alcohol or other substances that could damage it)
And dont insist too much "rubbing" in the circles with black ink.... if at some point the black ink gets lost you have ruined the membrane

Anyway... what i wanted to suggest you is to try to swap (left by right) that membranes for the triggers
As far i remember both have exactly the same shape... so you could replace one by the other
The goal is to verify if the L1 button still have problems after replacing the membrane... you know, maybe is a coincidence and your glue is working perfect, but the problem is in the membrane

--------
There are some manufacturers that sells pencils with conductive ink... are nice because the fact is a pencil it allows you to paint with it (everybody knows how to do it, even kids) and it allows to do it very preciselly (very thin lines, you could even use a ruler to draw perfectly straight lines)
The 2 problems of this pencils are that are a bit expensive because the ink contains silver powder.. and the fact if we buy one of them we are supposed to use it entirelly in the incoming... dunno 3 or 4 months
Otherway, if you dont use it the ink of the pencil is going to get dry (i guess in something like 6 months or so the ink is going to "expire")
If you are going to use it a lot (to empty it) then is worthy to buy one of hat pencils because works nice, but if you just need to do a small repair is better to do it at home like you did

I am happy to use the controller after the pencil carbon fix. I also want to do more tinkering and experiment for improvement but that would be risking the controller. As soon as i get a new replacement RCB, i would try more solutions on broken RCB to improve the fix.