Help with rsx/CPU temp

Thank you so much for all the info :)

So the slim is better than the super slim for the things I want to use it to?

I'll start searching around here where I live (Portugal) and try and find the best model for a good price
 
sandungas said:
Which PS3 model is it, CECH-???? (fill the question marks with the PS3 model)

The way how it works is long to explain, im going to try to resume it in few words
The main thermal sensors are inside CELL and RSX (so we can say are made by IBM and NVIDIA)

Next to the CELL and RSX (located the most closer posible) there are 2 chips named "thermal monitors" that are working as a "translator" of the thermal signals
This thermal monitors are easy to identify because you are going to see 2 lines that goes under CELL/RSX. That lines connects the internal CELL/RSX "thermal sensors" with the external "thermal monitors" chips

And the thermal monitors are connected in "cascade" to a 2-wires data line that works a bit like USB... you know in a 2-wires USB cable you can connect multiple USB devices (by using USB hubs), and all the USB devices are going to use the same 2 data lines
The concept is the same with the PS3 thermal monitors, every thermal monitor is given an unique ID and the data sent by it is paired with his ID... so the component at the other side that receives the data knows which thermal sensor sent it

Then, the component that receives the info at the other side is the syscon chip, so basically we have:
Thermal sensor (inside RSX) ---> thermal monitor ---> syscon
Syscon monitors the sensors in real time with a precission of miliseconds, and based on the values applyes some kind of algorithm to calculate the fan speeds

What webman and other homebrew apps does is to use a couple of syscall to communicate with syscon
With one of them you can make a "query" to syscon and returns the temperature of CELL/RSX
And with the other you can "set" a fan speed (bypassing the fan speed syscon decided to use)

-------------------------------
So...
This is really weird, your PS3 is a very rare case
I guessed syscon had some mechanism to identify if the thermal monitors was faulty and in that case it should not allow to turn on the PS3

In your case it seems the shared "data lines" in between syscon and the "thermal monitors" is working fine (otherway the CELL temperature should not display either)
So the problem could be either... the "thermal monitor" chip located externally next to RSX... or the sensors inside RSX
Or maybe the motherboard was hitted/scratched and a data line was cutted
Or maybe you have that thermal monitor with some pins in shorcut, because either:
-dust with metal particles
-covered with conductive thermal paste
-tiny solder balls moving around inside your PS3 and decided to lay over the pins
-an "orpahn" small wire from previous solder jobs

So well... my suggestion is the next time you open the PS3 take a magnifyer glass/loupe and take a good look at the thermal monitors
Also, just incase, you can use alcohol and a toothbrush... to clean the thermal monitor pins by brushing them

I made a couple of photos of the thermal monitors of a CECH25-xx, are the squared chips with 8 pins veeeeery close to CELL/RSX
http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Thermal
Click to expand...
Very informative and interesting post. You really know your stuff. Thanks :)
 
Honestly, I would go for a super slim (latest redesign / smallest form factor / least power consumption / less heat / less likely to have YLOD and so on).

But if you want to be able to hack it, I agree with sandungas, 25xx might be the best.
 
Walter.C said:
Honestly, I would go for a super slim (latest redesign / smallest form factor / least power consumption / less heat / less likely to have YLOD and so on).

But if you want to be able to hack it, I agree with sandungas, 25xx might be the best.
Click to expand...

Yeah buddy, that is my main purpose since I have so much content I don't want to lose from my previous PS3 :/
 
Realrj said:
Thank you so much for all the info :)

So the slim is better than the super slim for the things I want to use it to?

I'll start searching around here where I live (Portugal) and try and find the best model for a good price
Click to expand...
Realrj said:
Oh I just saw that the super slim is not downgradeable :) hence your reply :D
Click to expand...
Yes, thats why i mentioned the datecode (named literally "manufacturing date" in usa PS3 models)
What happened is it was published a security fail that affected a part of the PS3 bootchain named "metldr" in firmware 3.55 and this happened at the second half of 2010 (matching with datecodes 0C and 0D)... so all PS3 models manufactured before that date allows to install cfw

The confusing thing is CECH-25xx was produced in 2010 and 2011... so there are some CECH-25xx with the old "metldr" (where you can install cfw), and others CECH-25xx with the new "metldr2.0" (that doesnt allows to install cfw)
After that they started manufacturing CECH-30xx (the last PS3 slim model) with "metldr2.0", and later the superslims with "metldr2.0" too

So in short... by looking at the datecode you can deduce which metldr it have... but for a better verification when you have the PS3 you need to use a (fake) firmware named "minvercheck"... it doesnt installs anything, just shows you a warning message on screen that tells which is the minimal firmware allowed to be installed in this PS3

----------------
The motherboards are always more efficient in every revision... so the most newer the better about efficiency
But about generating heat and noise is not so straightforward, because for CECH-30xx they reduced the size of the heatsink metal block (less metal = less dissipation), and they reduced the size of the fan (smaller = more noise)
And for superslims they reduced again both heatskink and fan sizes even more... so the gain of efficiency in electronics of the motherboard was ruined in superslim
 
sandungas said:
The motherboards are always more efficient in every revision... so the most newer the better about efficiency
But about generating heat and noise is not so straightforward, because for CECH-30xx they reduced the size of the heatsink metal block (less metal = less dissipation), and they reduced the size of the fan (smaller = more noise)
And for superslims they reduced again both heatskink and fan sizes even more... so the gain of efficiency in electronics of the motherboard was ruined in superslim
Click to expand...
very useful infos. thanks :D
 
Walter.C said:
very useful infos. thanks :D
Click to expand...
In the "PS3 SuperSlim" familly the most efficient motherboards started with CECH-42xx
I realized about it when @esc0rtd3w posted some info about his PQX-001 motherboard here: http://www.psx-place.com/threads/documenting-superslim-syscon-pinout-on-wiki.20527/#post-135640
Then i was looking a the photos here: http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions#PQX-001
And decided to make a table here: http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Talk:SKU_Models#PS3_SuperSlim (mostly empty because i dont have info about superslim components)

The important changes in that superslim motherboards are:
-The RSX is smaller, and it have only 2 memory chips in the corners of RSX (where all previous PS3 models had 4)
-the CELL seems to be smaller too
-The power supply should have less watts too

It can be seen in the photos of this page http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions
But i think the info in that page is not much accurate, so i cant tell wich motherboard is inside every PS3 superslim model
 
sandungas said:
-The RSX is smaller, and it have only 2 memory chips in the corners of RSX (where all previous PS3 models had 4)
Click to expand...

Not all SuperSlims have only 2, my CECH4003A has 4 like all other PS3's but this, from what I can tell anyway, is restricted to the models that have internal memory like the 12GB eMMC, which is the model SuperSlim I have. The heat sink only covers the CELL (not the RSX) and the RSX has no IHS plate, instead it has a long copper tube, slightly squashed, leading from the central chip on the RSX to the main heat sink, so essentially the RSX in the SuperSlim allows the heat to dissipate naturally rather than use a full covering heat sink and a fan to cool it. And I must say i have only ever had 1 overheating problem with it and it fried the BT before I replaced the thermal paste and its had some major abuse. (Normally on 24/7 as don't watch TV, just films and music on 1 TV and my other 2 Slims and PC attached to 40" TV for gaming and working on mods, 2 TV's 3 PS3's and a 4K PC the Ultimate setup lol all in front of me)

The CELL is considerably smaller and appears to use a silicone based thermal compound under the IHS to attach it to the actual CELL and the plate then normal thermal (I like to use a carbon based thermal compound) paste between the the IHS and the main heat sink.
 
Cypher_CG89 said:
Not all SuperSlims have only 2, my CECH4003A has 4 like all other PS3's but this, from what I can tell anyway, is restricted to the models that have internal memory like the 12GB eMMC, which is the model SuperSlim I have. The heat sink only covers the CELL (not the RSX) and the RSX has no IHS plate, instead it has a long copper tube, slightly squashed, leading from the central chip on the RSX to the main heat sink, so essentially the RSX in the SuperSlim allows the heat to dissipate naturally rather than use a full covering heat sink and a fan to cool it. And I must say i have only ever had 1 overheating problem with it and it fried the BT before I replaced the thermal paste and its had some major abuse. (Normally on 24/7 as don't watch TV, just films and music on 1 TV and my other 2 Slims and PC attached to 40" TV for gaming and working on mods, 2 TV's 3 PS3's and a 4K PC the Ultimate setup lol all in front of me)

The CELL is considerably smaller and appears to use a silicone based thermal compound under the IHS to attach it to the actual CELL and the plate then normal thermal (I like to use a carbon based thermal compound) paste between the the IHS and the main heat sink.
Click to expand...
The superslims with improved RSX/CELL are only this motherboards:

Smaller RSX (and only 2 RSX memory chips)
NPX-001 (serial: 1-887-233-11 )
PPX-001 (serial: 1-887-357-11 )
PQX-001 (serial: 1-888-615-11, 1-888-615-21, 1-888-615-31 )
RTX-001 (serial: 1-893-504-11)

Smaller CELL
PPX-001 (serial: 1-887-357-11 )
PQX-001 (serial: 1-888-615-11, 1-888-615-21, 1-888-615-31 )
RTX-001 (serial: 1-893-504-11)

So basically... in the list of "most efficient" PS3 motherboards there are only 3 that are at the top

I added the serials here because based on them can be seen the order (smaller numbers is older, bigger numbers are newer)
And it can be seen the RSX was reduced first (in NPX-001)... and the CELL was reduced in the next model (PPX-001)
What is not clear is which PS3 model (CECH-xxxx) uses every motherboard model... but overall it seems to be since CECH-42xx

*It can be seen in the photos here:
http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions#NPX-001
 
Realrj said:
Thank you so much for all the info :)

So the slim is better than the super slim for the things I want to use it to?

I'll start searching around here where I live (Portugal) and try and find the best model for a good price
Click to expand...
Ainda pedem um balurdio por uma PlayStation3? :D
 
sandungas said:
The superslims with improved RSX/CELL are only this motherboards:

Smaller RSX (and only 2 RSX memory chips)
NPX-001 (serial: 1-887-233-11 )
PPX-001 (serial: 1-887-357-11 )
PQX-001 (serial: 1-888-615-11, 1-888-615-21, 1-888-615-31 )
RTX-001 (serial: 1-893-504-11)

Smaller CELL
PPX-001 (serial: 1-887-357-11 )
PQX-001 (serial: 1-888-615-11, 1-888-615-21, 1-888-615-31 )
RTX-001 (serial: 1-893-504-11)

So basically... in the list of "most efficient" PS3 motherboards there are only 3 that are at the top

I added the serials here because based on them can be seen the order (smaller numbers is older, bigger numbers are newer)
And it can be seen the RSX was reduced first (in NPX-001)... and the CELL was reduced in the next model (PPX-001)
What is not clear is which PS3 model (CECH-xxxx) uses every motherboard model... but overall it seems to be since CECH-42xx

*It can be seen in the photos here:
http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Motherboard_Revisions#NPX-001
Click to expand...

Thanks for the extra info. And whats really dumb, about me, is that i didn't check the devwiki when i was looking into this when i had the console to bits changing the thermal paste. I know my stuff but when it comes the hardware other than the how the CELL and RSX operates, am still learning. Didn't really bother with learning what the improvements really were as i have one of the first SuperSlim models to be produced. And mainly focused on the improvements to the Slim Models.
 
Np, i have doubts too about the superslim, this is why i prefer to mention the motherboard models instead the PS3 model
I dont know in which PS3 model is used every motherboard model, so lets say... by looking at the PS3 from outside i dont know which motherboard is inside
 
sandungas said:
Np, i have doubts too about the superslim, this is why i prefer to mention the motherboard models instead the PS3 model
I dont know in which PS3 model is used every motherboard model, so lets say... by looking at the PS3 from outside i dont know which motherboard is inside
Click to expand...

Well its so far stood the test of time with some serious abuse in gaming (MPX-001 12GB), only the BT has failed due to the heat before the thermal paste was replaced. The WiFi is fine, but all my consoles are hard lined to the router with Ethernet cables so that makes no difference to me.

One thing that worries me is the lack of thermal paste on the CELL from the factory when it was manufactured, when i parted the motherboard from the main heat sink there was a clear 1.5cm gap around the edges, bigger at the corners, in the paste so the CELL is not fully or adequately covered by paste when in contact with the heat sink therefore allowing heat to build up in the gap between the CELL and heat sink instead of it being transferred through the sink as it is meant to be.

Maybe this was just an error in the batch but that small gap could of contributed to early CELL failure (even though the console is now 6 years old) if i had not replaced the paste, it is now caked in a carbon based thermal compound (Arctic MX-5) and the problem has been solved.

And the way the RSX is cooled is utterly bizarre compared to previous PS3 models (basically no heat sink) and infarct any computer device. I wont be buying another one when this one fails, i much prefer the CECH2003A model Slims, guaranteed to be jail-breakable (I have just realised that all my retail model PS3's are CECH 2003A's or 4003A's models, now that's weird??)
 
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