PS3 PlayTV broken - Solution now found!

[Rissy]

Hello all, this is my first post on this forum after just joining.

To quickly introduce myself, I've got an original 80GB Phat PS3 under my TV, from new (bought I think around 2008/2009). Obviously, I've changed out the original HDD long time ago. Now has a 500GB HDD.

I've never done anything with my PS3 which isn't official.

I've got PlayTV for my PS3, again, since it was first released, and I'm still a user of this addon to the console, all be it not as much as I used to, but it's still the only way I can record TV things for long term posterity, so I'm always keen to have it working.

Years ago, Sony messed up PlayTV good and proper, but then released a fix for that, and it was all good again after only a few weeks of downtime. I can't remember fully when that was.

More recently, this seems to have been done again at some point within the past year (i think). I had 4.90 firmware on there, and for the first time in ages, I left the console in standby over night two nights ago. The yesterday morning, when coming down the stairs I realised the console green light was on....

I'm now going to cut a long story short.

Basically, my PS3 got properly stuck in a loop where it was crashing over and over, and I couldn't even switch off the console in a safe manner; instead, having to resort to the rocker switch at the back. Obviously this meant the database corruption message etc etc. During this "fight", I realised it was needing a firmware update. So not thinking any more about it, I updated it to 4.91 and ran out the door to work. After fiddling with it a bit more last night, I seem to now have it more stable again, although i've now realised that PlayTV is broken in a similar way to how it was broken years ago (from memory).

PlayTV loads up seemingly fine, and works great (seemingly), and I can watch TV (not tried recording or anything like that yet)....for about 3-5mins, and then it crashes, and live TV freezes! Pressing the Playstation button to then select QUIT PlayTV results in the console beeping 3 times and then rebooting itself completely. If I quit PlayTV *BEFORE* it crashes (i.e. within a minute or so of first booting it up), then it closes down as would be expected, back to the home screen without issue.

I'm wondering how many other people are still using PlayTV, and if anyone else has similar issues or not. If this is a known issue, then does Sony know about it? - do they care? Is there a known firmware release where it's known to be the last where PlayTV worked ok, or not? It was definitely ok in 2018 as I have a load of recordings from then, but after that, i'm not sure. I *think* it was ok on 4.89, but I couldn't be 100% certain.

Finally, this leads me to the ultimate question, since I know next to nothing about CFW on a PS3:

Can I roll back my PS3 official 4.91 to an earlier official firmware where PlayTV wasn't broken if Sony never fix it themselves, using any clever tools you guys develop here?

I apologise for the length of my first post.

 

[GuilloteTesla]

Can I roll back my PS3 official 4.91 to an earlier official firmware where PlayTV wasn't broken if Sony never fix it themselves, using any clever tools you guys develop here?

Not yet. When CFW 4.91 releases you may downgrade to any FW version you want.

But your PlayTV issues maybe are to other issues. PS3 crashing or rebooting with 3 beeps could mean lots of things: high temps, broken software, bad power supply, faulty motherboard, etc.

Best thing to do is to install CFW and WebMAN MOD, in order to monitor temps and use the dynamic fan control. If the console starts overheating, the fans ramp up immediately preventing a safety shutdown.

 

[Berion]

Been on CFW, You can install any fw version. But on OFW, You are limited to current or newer. Currently You cannot install CFW because solution for 4.91 is not ready yet AFIAK.

You don't know if issue isn't on hardware side of this device, or even PS3 itself. Based on description, it is not obvious for me. ^^ And sorry, but I cannot help You, it is first time I ever heard about PlayTV.

 

[Rissy]

Hey, and thanks for your replies.

I'm aware of the whole situation revolving around the firmware release, and time required to get past that again by the people who do an amazing job and overcoming this each time! So i'm aware that there may be a bit of time required before CFW can be applied again (in my case anyway, as i've got 4.91 now)

I don't think this is a hardware issue, and my PS3 is well ventilated, cold and the fan is quiet, so it's not an overheating situation. I'm absolutely confident that this is down to software conflicts in the firmware for the console and the firmware for PlayTV.

PlayTV was original developed by a team Cambridge Studios. That team has long since gone now. When Sony broke PlayTV the first time years ago, I suspect they either called on support from that team, or members of it again (somehow), or they had an inhouse guy who had to learn fast!

I suspect it's just a thing now that's been left to die unfortunately, but it's amazing and such a shame, and I wish they'd do a modern updated version for HD etc for one of the later consoles, but i suspect they will never do this as the PS3 was pushed as a multimedia console, but later consoles have been pushed as games consoles which still happen to be able to play movies and run some entertainment streaming apps. I would have loved for my PlayTV to continue to work into the retro console label it's now starting to achieve.

I'd still like to hear back from anyone else still running PlayTV. I hope it's not just me.

Although i'm nervous about flashing firmware, especially CFW with the chance of bricking my console which is otherwise good (for now), I fear it may be the only answer to recovering PlayTV again. What version of FW i'd have to regress it to though, would be a guess on my part. I would consider it's gotta be one of them between the year 2018 up to V4.89. I can't seem to be able to find a chronolgy of firmware release dates for the PS3. That would have helped me understand better.

 

[GuilloteTesla]

I don't think this is a hardware issue, and my PS3 is well ventilated, cold and the fan is quiet, so it's not an overheating situation. I'm absolutely confident that this is down to software conflicts in the firmware for the console and the firmware for PlayTV.

If you've been all this time using OFW, the fans will always run quiet because that's the default setting set by Sony. In other words, if your console was overheating you wouldn't have noticed it unless you've touched it after each shutdown.

With WebMAN MOD's dynamic fan control you would have noticed immediatly if your console started to overheat, as the fans would have kicked in at once to cool down the console.

It could also be a software issue, but your consoles resets after minutes of usage are not software related.

Although i'm nervous about flashing firmware, especially CFW with the chance of bricking my console which is otherwise good (for now), I fear it may be the only answer to recovering PlayTV again. What version of FW i'd have to regress it to though, would be a guess on my part. I would consider it's gotta be one of them between the year 2018 up to V4.89. I can't seem to be able to find a chronolgy of firmware release dates for the PS3. That would have helped me understand better.

The only risks are the same ones that can happen when updating your console with OFW: power down during flashing, bad HDD, bad FW (Sony made mistakes and bricked their own products in the past).

In my opinion, you should try to downgrade to version 4.88. It's pretty stable and falls under your time window where PlayTV worked fine.

As Berion said before, once you have CFW you can use any FW version you like.

 

[Rissy]

If you've been all this time using OFW, the fans will always run quiet because that's the default setting set by Sony. In other words, if your console was overheating you wouldn't have noticed it unless you've touched it after each shutdown.

With WebMAN MOD's dynamic fan control you would have noticed immediatly if your console started to overheat, as the fans would have kicked in at once to cool down the console.

It could also be a software issue, but your consoles resets after minutes of usage are not software related.

The three beeps thing has only happened that one time when PlayTV first locked up my PS3 the morning I came down to find it on. I suspect that with the machine set to do updates etc in the night, this conflicted somehow with the PlayTV software, which upon evidence of perfomance characteristics with it installed, seems to affect the machine in ways which I don't think it should. For example, when you turn the PS3 on with the rocker switch, the PS3 red light comes on, quickly followed by the green light without you touching it to make it wake up yourself. When you see what's going on with it on the TV, it's in a PlayTV window, with a message advising you that if you leave it alone, it will shutdown itself again once it's <done whatever it's trying to do - insert Sony message here, whatever it is>, otherwise you can press circle and head straight to the XMB yourself. It's during this phase (i think) that when it woke itself up from standby at 3:10am that night (for updates?), I think it's related to this activity or something similar, that locked up the PS3 as the time was still stuck at 3:10am on the TV display screen, despite by this time, it was 7:30am (ish).
Upon finding it in this sitiuation that morning, pressing circle to head to the XMB (so i could manually shut it down before heading out to work) wouldn't work. My controllers would just flash all four red LEDs and not communicate with the console. The PS3 TV Remote wouldn't work with it either. It was truly locked up. I *HAD* to switch it off at the rocker switch and then switch it back on. It was during the occurrences after this, once it rebuilt its database from the hard shutdown, that the three beeps came as it autoshut itself down once it came back up (unexplainably), but the second time it booted back up (after rebuilding its database AGAIN (this is now twice in 10 mins!)) it remained up and running, but anything i wanted to select on the XMB, including shutdown from the XMB was met with a message saying PlayTV had to quit in order to access that function. This was completely out of the ordinary indeed, and meant I couldn't even soft shutdown the console! I had no choice (i thought), but to turn it off at the rocker switch again, and head to work.
When I returned to it again that night, I turned it on again, and the same situation just described was reoccurring. Except this time, with more time available, I eventually realised that if I pressed Triangle at the PlayTV symbol, one of the options was "Stop Recording". This is something I hadn't seen before (not to say it's never been there before, but that's not normally the way I'd stop it from recording TV). After I selected this option, the PS3 then returned to the correct running characterisitcs I'd normally expect, and I could do anything I wanted again, including shutting it down from the XMB. I had never set PlayTV to record anything on the TV for it to be in this "Recording" state of malfunction. I did that itself!

I've not had the three beeps since, except in the scenario when PlayTV has crashed (mid watching TV - not sure if it does that just leaving it on the menu or not. That might be something else to try). This is the scenario described in my first post. The point is, I can still play games, or watch a Bluray movie, and the console works just fine. No beeping or ill-behaviour. So this is why I think it's software related, and not overheating or anything else.

The only risks are the same ones that can happen when updating your console with OFW: power down during flashing, bad HDD, bad FW (Sony made mistakes and bricked their own products in the past).

In my opinion, you should try to downgrade to version 4.88. It's pretty stable and falls under your time window where PlayTV worked fine.

As Berion said before, once you have CFW you can use any FW version you like.

So if you have CFW installed on the machine, that allows you to downgrade that installation to any OFW version, but then does the machine become original again at that point, or is there still CFW on there?, Does it boot up to OFW through the CFW installation somehow, or boot both in parallel with some new menus or something, or do you boot into CFW everytime, and then select the OFW to load into from there? I'm not sure what the CFW looks like or how it acts.

 

[GuilloteTesla]

I've not had the three beeps since, except in the scenario when PlayTV has crashed (mid watching TV - not sure if it does that just leaving it on the menu or not. That might be something else to try). This is the scenario described in my first post. The point is, I can still play games, or watch a Bluray movie, and the console works just fine. No beeping or ill-behaviour. So this is why I think it's software related, and not overheating or anything else.

Well, in that case the PlayTV app is doing something fishy, or maybe its settings conflict with the PS3's. In any case, it's good to know that your console has no other issues besides this app.

So if you have CFW installed on the machine, that allows you to downgrade that installation to any OFW version, but then does the machine become original again at that point, or is there still CFW on there?, Does it boot up to OFW through the CFW installation somehow, or boot both in parallel with some new menus or something, or do you boot into CFW everytime, and then select the OFW to load into from there? I'm not sure what the CFW looks like or how it acts.

Once you install OFW over CFW, your console becomes original again. No traces of CFW whatsoever.

But, I would recommend against installing OFW ever again. CFW is way more flexible and has tons of features than OFW, even the chance to install some special version CFW in order to bypass BT/WiFi and BD drive checks (in case any of said components goes bad).

There is no menu to choose OFW or CFW, it always runs what you've installed. And CFW looks exactly the same as OFW. Even after OFW 4.89, the FW that messed up the layouts of the XMB, CFW 4.89 got most of it fixed to some extent.

Trust me, CFW is WAY MORE superior than OFW, and it also has more support from the community than Sony.

 

[Rissy]

OK, well thanks for that. I'm wondering now whether CFW is going to work with PlayTV or not....?

Does CFW keep the DRM encryption key for bluray movies updated too? My understanding is that this is the only reason Sony still release annual firmware updates to the console. I wonder how long they'll keep doing that for?

Even after OFW 4.89, the FW that messed up the layouts of the XMB, CFW 4.89 got most of it fixed to some extent.

I don't remember this at all!? My 4.89 was ok. I'd have remembered if it hadn't been...!?

 

[GuilloteTesla]

OK, well thanks for that. I'm wondering now whether CFW is going to work with PlayTV or not....?

Does CFW keep the DRM encryption key for bluray movies updated too? My understanding is that this is the only reason Sony still release annual firmware updates to the console. I wonder how long they'll keep doing that for?

Again, CFW is exactly the same as OFW, only with less security checks and with more stuff added to it in order to run homebrew apps. DRM encryption keys are there, nothing is removed.

I don't remember this at all!? My 4.89 was ok. I'd have remembered if it hadn't been...!?

Check this thread on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS3/comments/v5ov6l/menu_problems_after_firmware_update_489/?rdt=42726

And this thread on PSX-Place: https://www.psx-place.com/threads/4...tails-about-the-firmware-update.37203/page-16

There were lots of reports about broken interface and misplaced text/icons.

 

[Rissy]

For those who may be interested, I've added a quick video on PlayTV. My hope would be that Sony see this, and fix the issue; but with less than high hopes on this, at the very least, it lets people see PlayTV in action. For a bit at least, until it crashes.

Enjoy!

 

[RIP-Felix]

try a new HDD

 

[Rissy]

try a new HDD

Do you know what, I'd never considered the HDD might be starting to go bad! It HAS been in there for many years now. Probably since about 2010 or 2011!

 

[Rissy]

Right, not to continue to receive too much criticism for posting elsewhere, I'm still hoping i'll receive some technical assistance from within this thread (as I know hardly anyone is interested in PlayTV), I'll attempt to continue my story here, but if I don't get the help I'm looking for here, then I'll have to repost in other threads again.

To catch up those who might be interested, but haven't caught my other posts in other threads:

I've got mutliple PS3's now, and some of these have old OFW on them. I moved on to these from my phat console in order to attempt to rule out the HDD going bad on my Phat (at least with respects to PlayTV)

I was sure PlayTV worked up until somewhere like OFW 4.88. I had to learn how to CFW a machine so that I could take a console back in time to test this theory, plus I wanted to learn about this subject more anyway. So at the weekend, I spent the whole day doing precisely this, and on top of that, I successfully regressed a Slim model from 4.91 OFW to 4.91.2 CFW, to 4.88.2 CFW and then to 4.87 CFW. That's where I stopped with that console as PlayTV still didn't work on any of them, and I was starting to get confused.

I pulled out the sledgehammer approach and dug out another console (Slim) which only had 4.82 OFW on it (I was CERTAIN PLAyTV worked at this point, as this is now back in 2017 and I have PlayTV recordings from my own original Phat console 2018!), and installed playTV on that instead. Back at this point PlayTV now last for about 8mins before it crashes (an improvement over 3mins for the later firmwares, but still no good for using) - Now super confused!. I then dug out a Super Slim console which only has OFW 4.75 on it. This is back in 2015 now! After a break to go to the cinema with the missus, I then tested PlayTV on this console and I found it was the same as 4.82!? Now i'm REALLY confused! How is this!?

So now I want to do TWO things (2nd has my post question, so please respond to that if you know the answer):

1. I've now bought ANOTHER PlayTV package, apparently new and never used (we'll see!). Trying out the breakout box from this one will help me rule out any possibility that my own PlayTV breakout box is malfunctioniing in some way. For me, this definitely looks like a software thing rather than an hardware thing though, but I have to rule it out anyway. I think it's more like a memory leak of sorts in the firmware, where a buffer or a cache is being filled up instead of refreshed as it goes, and then once the cache is filled up, PlayTV freezes and the console crashes. That's what it seems like to me anyway.

2. I want to continue the sledgehammer approach with the CFW Slim I have and test PlayTV at the earliest firmware point I can with this Slim model. According to the statistics on this console, the earliest firmware it'll support is OFW 3.40

Now my questions (3):
1. Are there any issues with me taking this Slim model PS3, and regressing it from 4.87 CFW to 3.40 (even if I have to go back to OFW)?
2. Is there any dangers I need to be aware of in doing this?

If PlayTV works at 3.40, my intention then is to go up firmwares one by one (I can do this ok with OFW) and get to the point where I find at what point exactly PlayTV goes bad (TU).

3. Are there any firmwares I should avoid like the plague along the way? Known firmwares from Sony that bricked the console etc?

 

[andshrew]

Have you tried a simple test of disabling the internet connection on the PS3 to see if that has any effect on the crashing (perhaps the software is trying to contact a server which is not currently responding, and it isn't handling that failure very gracefully).

I appreciate your dedication to trying to diagnose this, but I'm also curious what the use case is for Play TV in 2024 that you would go to such lengths to try and fix it. Surely this is one of - if not the most - expensive ways of watching TV in terms of power consumption.

 

[Rissy]

Have you tried a simple test of disabling the internet connection on the PS3 to see if that has any effect on the crashing (perhaps the software is trying to contact a server which is not currently responding, and it isn't handling that failure very gracefully).

I appreciate your dedication to trying to diagnose this, but I'm also curious what the use case is for Play TV in 2024 that you would go to such lengths to try and fix it. Surely this is one of - if not the most - expensive ways of watching TV in terms of power consumption.

Thanks for your interest and enquiry.

Short answer, I'm probably mental. PlayTV is excellent though, and it's the only way I have to record TV, and put it on to a USB for transfer elsewhere.

I have indeed tried removing the internet connection from the console(s), then powering them up, and then booting up PlayTV.

I've even started considering the fact that TV signals are distributed differently in the UK now compared to years ago. DVB-T versus DVB-T2. But even after doing a LOT of reading on that subject, my understanding is that DVB-T receivers should still work as these signals are still being sent out, but for only Standard Definition (SD) channels, which is fine because PlayTV was only ever SD, never HD.

The only thing on that part of the subject I can grab onto, is the modern use of 64QAM as well as still using 16QAM (Quadrature Amplitude Modulation). I don't know whether PlayTV was designed to only use 16QAM, but can receive 64QAM too, and use it, but because of the increased bandwidth, this may be overflowing memory somewhere, which might account for the symptoms I've described previously, and suggest that I'm on the right track by saying that it could be down to memory cache filling up or something, leading to the freezing and crashing of the console. Ultimately, I've never opened up a PlayTV breakout box to see what the circuitry consists of, and even if I did, I'm not sure if I'd understand it. So basically put, I don't know if it's down to this new signalling tactic in the UK, which has killed PlayTV. I don't know enough about the design of the hardware or software of PlayTV to comment further.

The switch over in the UK for transfer from DVB-T to a full DVB-T2, including QAM changes, was completed in 2011. So why why was my PlayTV still working in 2018?

So that leaves me the 2 options I'm trying out. Firmware regression, and change out of hardware. If I exhaust those, then the only natural conclusion is that despite DVB-T receivers/decoders apparently still working in the UK even today, PlayTV would then be an exception to this.

 

[GuilloteTesla]

Now my questions (3):
1. Are there any issues with me taking this Slim model PS3, and regressing it from 4.87 CFW to 3.40 (even if I have to go back to OFW)?
2. Is there any dangers I need to be aware of in doing this?

If PlayTV works at 3.40, my intention then is to go up firmwares one by one (I can do this ok with OFW) and get to the point where I find at what point exactly PlayTV goes bad (TU).

3. Are there any firmwares I should avoid like the plague along the way? Known firmwares from Sony that bricked the console etc?

1. Yes, there are issues downgrading below FW 3.55. It's not a simple process and requires other PUPs and specific procedures. Not recommended.

2. The only dangers are in using some of the old 3.55 CFW PUPs. That version is a breaking point because it behaves differently than newer FW versions.

First you should check the minimum FW version required for PlayTV. If it needs, let's say FW 3.80, going down to 3.40 is pointless.

3. You shouldn't install any CFW with version under 3.55. There are some PUPs from Sony that wiped out all the HDD data because of an incompatibility issue not detected on release, but I don't remember which ones. In any case, Sony never released a PUP that caused a console to brick on update, it's always the user's actions that lead to a brick.

 

[Rissy]

1. Yes, there are issues downgrading below FW 3.55. It's not a simple process and requires other PUPs and specific procedures. Not recommended.

2. The only dangers are in using some of the old 3.55 CFW PUPs. That version is a breaking point because it behaves differently than newer FW versions.

First you should check the minimum FW version required for PlayTV. If it needs, let's say FW 3.80, going down to 3.40 is pointless.

3. You shouldn't install any CFW with version under 3.55. There are some PUPs from Sony that wiped out all the HDD data because of an incompatibility issue not detected on release, but I don't remember which ones. In any case, Sony never released a PUP that caused a console to brick on update, it's always the user's actions that lead to a brick.

Thanks for your reply.

PlayTV came out in 2008 @ V1.00 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayTV), the same year I bought my Phat one, and that shipped with OFW 2.16 (according to PS3Toolset), 3.40 should be well on from this (2010). I don't know what the minimum firmware PlayTV was designed to work with (I might check the box it came in)

The latest update revision for PlayTV was in 2013, which brought it up to 2.04.

For my experiments, I've only been using V1.00, although I have tried it on V2.04 on the latest OFW release (4.91)

With regards to CFW, I totally appreciate that there might have been dicey dealings going that low, even if it WERE possible (with CFW), so that's why I suggested the use of OFW instead.

So for example, if I went from my current 4.87 CFW version, straight to OFW 3.40 (I know i'm losing my CFW at this point, but I can put it back again, yes?) and then started incrementing up OFW versions, then I'd learn where PlayTV got broken for sure.

Of course, if PlayTV still doesn't work at 3.40 then I also know that it's a TV signal issue or a hardware issue (breakout box), and NOT a firmware issue.
When my new PlayTV box comes in the post, then I can try that too, and if it still doesn't work, then its a TV broadcasting issue with PlayTV, and at that point I will know, as well as everyone else then knowing that PlayTV is indeed dead, and this is the reason.

So my question is, can I safely go back to 3.40 OFW (or an advised minimum OFW close to that) from 4.87 CFW for the facility of potentially incrementing up through the OFW versions again? Basically I'm using CFW as the only mechanism available to put a PS3 console back in time again.

 

[GuilloteTesla]

So for example, if I went from my current 4.87 CFW version, straight to OFW 3.40 (I know i'm losing my CFW at this point, but I can put it back again, yes?) and then started incrementing up OFW versions, then I'd learn where PlayTV got broken for sure.

You can't go straight from 4.87 to 3.40. That's what I've said before. It doesn't matter if you use CFW or OFW.

Version 3.55 is the breaking point, and even with that version is not as easy as installing a PUP.

 

[Rissy]

You can't go straight from 4.87 to 3.40. That's what I've said before. It doesn't matter if you use CFW or OFW.

Version 3.55 is the breaking point, and even with that version is not as easy as installing a PUP.

So what would be the minimum you would say I could do?

3.56?

Higher?

Which one?

 

[andshrew]

@Rissy That's fair enough!

I was also wondering if "something" in the received signal has changed and that is triggering the problem. Does the software give you any options to turn things off, like perhaps stopping it from automatically downloading the TV guide or interactive services (just trying to think of optional things which could be susceptible to "something" changing).

Another angle to troubleshoot from, given that it is just a USB tuner, would be to use a PC. It looks like there is good compatibility with the device on Linux, so trying it with that might at least reveal if there is anything odd with the signal, or even the device. At the very least you'll get access to view more detailed log information than you'll get from the PS3, even with CFW.

https://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Sony_PlayTV_dual_tuner_DVB-T