PS3HEN Ps3 superslim temperature.

[DoublesAdvocate]

You know, that got me thinking, so I made some tests in a couple of sessions, to see how this works. And actually I found something interesting.

0) SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
2) Slim 2001 A 45nm CELL/65nm RSX
3) Slim 2001 B
5) SS REX B

Session 1º ; Ambient temperature: 24ºC (using two termocouples)

SYSCON IDLE
0) 60/62 at 26% SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 68/65 at 24% SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
5) 68/67 at 24% SS REX B

MANUAL 35% IDLE
0) 52/51 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 52/53 SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
5) 54/54 SS REX B

On this session the clear winner is the MPX but it's strange because it has a bigger RSX. On the CELL side it has a bigger IHS, so that could explain it. Something unexplainable is why both processors on the REX go so up comparing them to the MPXs, while on manual things tend to equal. The whole heatsinks on lastest SS really suck? At least we know that in someway the 40nm RSX is cooler than the 28nm on this console, just perfect for being a fattie donnor.

Session 2º; Ambient temperature 16ºC (using two termocouples). It actually went later to 18ºC just because I had 5 consoles warming the room lol.

SYSCON IDLE
0) 57/59 at 25% SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 67/66 at 24% SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
2) 60/68 at 28% Slim 2001 A 45nm CELL/65nm RSX
3) 58/64 at 28% Slim 2001 B
5) 65/64 at 24% SS REX B

MANUAL 35% IDLE
0) 44/45 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 46/48 SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
2) 54/59 Slim 2001 A 45nm CELL/65nm RSX
3) 52/56 Slim 2001 B
5) 47/48 SS REX B

In this case, ambient temperature is lower, and the internal temperature is also lower, but no directly proportional, but yes, is something that everyone should take in mind.
Talking about slims, nothing new, they are warmer and have a poor RSX cooling. I have to put them on 45% manual to be good to run heavy games. These are not delidded.

Also I remember that @DoublesAdvocate delidded a REX's cell. What do you think about this one being hotter than the ones on MPX/MSX?

I don't think I ever got temp measurements from that REX that I broke when delidding the CELL. Do you happen to have pics of the fan and heat sink assembly for both? Are they using the same model of fan? Also did you replace the paste on any/all of these or are all of them stock?

 

[Rugon]

Ok. I change the thermal paste last day with an mx-4(thanks to Arctic for the free sample). The stock paste is really dry and honestly I don't know how it can make good temp.
The room temp is 22/23°
In idle (with mx-4) at 27% fan: CPU 61 RSX 60
In idle (with mx-4) at 25% fan: CPU 66 RSX 65
unfortunately I do not have the measurements in idle of the stock thermal paste with these temperature but only in the game. Anyway in game...
Dead Island Riptide (stock thermal paste) at 27% fan: CPU 64 RSX 68/69
Dead Island Riptide (mx-4) at 27% fan: CPU 62/63 RSX 67
F1 2013 (stock thermal paste) at 27% fan: CPU 64 RSX 68
F1 2013 (mx-4) at 27% fan: CPU 63 RSX 64
I noticed a more advanced on GPU after the change respect to the CPU but anyway I'm very happy with the new temp.

 

[ElGris]

I don't think I ever got temp measurements from that REX that I broke when delidding the CELL. Do you happen to have pics of the fan and heat sink assembly for both? Are they using the same model of fan? Also did you replace the paste on any/all of these or are all of them stock?

Did you damage it? What happened?

Yeah, I made some pics and found something more. I did know that there were a fan a little bit noiser than the other, but because of the consoles already assembled I never knew which fan was the most noisy, well it was the Delta all the time, while the Nidec (four holes) is less noisy.

All the consoles tested were using MX4, and I did another test using 0) and 5) but also another 0) with a Delta fan. So:

0) SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Nidec
5) SS REX B 45nm CELL/28nm RSX Nidec
6) SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Delta

Ambient temperature 14ºC

SYSCON IDLE
0) 59/61 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Nidec
5) 65/64 SS REX B 45nm CELL/28nm RSX Nidec
6) 57/60 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Delta

MANUAL 35% IDLE
0) 46/47 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Nidec
5) 47/49 SS REX B 45nm CELL/28nm RSX Nidec
6) 46/47 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Delta

Summary: This sh&% couldn't be more accurated. At the end both MPX are the cooler no matter what fan you use, and temps were exactly the same. REX is still behind on SYSCON and almost reach the others on MANUAL.

This weekend I'm gonna test this MPX with TLOU at the beginning with all the NPCs and fire everywhere. Lets see how well it performs.

 

[DoublesAdvocate]

Did you damage it? What happened?

Yeah, I made some pics and found something more. I did know that there were a fan a little bit noiser than the other, but because of the consoles already assembled I never knew which fan was the most noisy, well it was the Delta all the time, while the Nidec (four holes) is less noisy.

All the consoles tested were using MX4, and I did another test using 0) and 5) but also another 0) with a Delta fan. So:

0) SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Nidec
5) SS REX B 45nm CELL/28nm RSX Nidec
6) SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Delta

Ambient temperature 14ºC

SYSCON IDLE
0) 59/61 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Nidec
5) 65/64 SS REX B 45nm CELL/28nm RSX Nidec
6) 57/60 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Delta

MANUAL 35% IDLE
0) 46/47 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Nidec
5) 47/49 SS REX B 45nm CELL/28nm RSX Nidec
6) 46/47 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX Delta

Summary: This sh&% couldn't be more accurated. At the end both MPX are the cooler no matter what fan you use, and temps were exactly the same. REX is still behind on SYSCON and almost reach the others on MANUAL.

This weekend I'm gonna test this MPX with TLOU at the beginning with all the NPCs and fire everywhere. Lets see how well it performs.

Yeah that REX was the one that got damaged when I cracked the CELL trying to remove the thermal adhesive from it.

 

[sandungas]

You know, that got me thinking, so I made some tests in a couple of sessions, to see how this works. And actually I found something interesting.

0) SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
2) Slim 2001 A 45nm CELL/65nm RSX
3) Slim 2001 B
5) SS REX B

Session 1º ; Ambient temperature: 24ºC (using two termocouples)

SYSCON IDLE
0) 60/62 at 26% SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 68/65 at 24% SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
5) 68/67 at 24% SS REX B

MANUAL 35% IDLE
0) 52/51 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 52/53 SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
5) 54/54 SS REX B

On this session the clear winner is the MPX but it's strange because it has a bigger RSX. On the CELL side it has a bigger IHS, so that could explain it. Something unexplainable is why both processors on the REX go so up comparing them to the MPXs, while on manual things tend to equal. The whole heatsinks on lastest SS really suck? At least we know that in someway the 40nm RSX is cooler than the 28nm on this console, just perfect for being a fattie donnor.

Session 2º; Ambient temperature 16ºC (using two termocouples). It actually went later to 18ºC just because I had 5 consoles warming the room lol.

SYSCON IDLE
0) 57/59 at 25% SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 67/66 at 24% SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
2) 60/68 at 28% Slim 2001 A 45nm CELL/65nm RSX
3) 58/64 at 28% Slim 2001 B
5) 65/64 at 24% SS REX B

MANUAL 35% IDLE
0) 44/45 SS MPX 45nm CELL/40nm RSX
1) 46/48 SS REX A 45nm CELL/28nm RSX
2) 54/59 Slim 2001 A 45nm CELL/65nm RSX
3) 52/56 Slim 2001 B
5) 47/48 SS REX B

In this case, ambient temperature is lower, and the internal temperature is also lower, but no directly proportional, but yes, is something that everyone should take in mind.
Talking about slims, nothing new, they are warmer and have a poor RSX cooling. I have to put them on 45% manual to be good to run heavy games. These are not delidded.

Also I remember that @DoublesAdvocate delidded a REX's cell. What do you think about this one being hotter than the ones on MPX/MSX?

Nice experiment yeah lets say (in rought numbers) the impact of the ambient temperature in the PS3 temperatures is reduced to half of it
Lets say... an increment of 20ºC of the ambient temperature in between winter and summer is going to cause an increment of 10ºC in the PS3
Im just rounding numbers to try to memorize it, probably it changes exponetially though... in the sense that a huge ambient temperature is not going to generate a huge PS3 temperature just because the syscon is going to trigger the fan speed to 100%... and a healthy PS3 with the fan at 100% speed should be able to keep temperatures under control

About the poor performance of the last superslims... dunno, maybe are the heatsinks, or they reduced the diameter of the fan, in wiki there is not much info about that components from the latest superslims

EDIT:
Btw, your REX-001 motherboards have a NOR (16mb) or eMMC (12GB) ?
And the MPX-001 ?

 

[ElGris]

Nice experiment yeah lets say (in rought numbers) the impact of the ambient temperature in the PS3 temperatures is reduced to half of it
Lets say... an increment of 20ºC of the ambient temperature in between winter and summer is going to cause an increment of 10ºC in the PS3
Im just rounding numbers to try to memorize it, probably it changes exponetially though... in the sense that a huge ambient temperature is not going to generate a huge PS3 temperature just because the syscon is going to trigger the fan speed to 100%... and a healthy PS3 with the fan at 100% speed should be able to keep temperatures under control

About the poor performance of the last superslims... dunno, maybe are the heatsinks, or they reduced the diameter of the fan, in wiki there is not much info about that components from the latest superslims

EDIT:
Btw, your REX-001 motherboards have a NOR (16mb) or eMMC (12GB) ?
And the MPX-001 ?

I think the REX is overheating on idle because of the cell's ihs, but in the case of the RSX, it seems they reduced sizes but not consumption? That die is smaller, and btw, rams are only two but bigger than in 40nms. This is kinda absent when the syscon kicks in, which makes no sense to me lol. By seeing the temps I read, there's no that much difference when we're going from 30% and above. But this could be really important when having a bad tim state or even better, >30ºC ambient temperature. This can make a difference in between a bga damage or a dead RSX.

Btw, your REX-001 motherboards have a NOR (16mb) or eMMC (12GB) ?
And the MPX-001 ?

I do have some eMMC but I believe most of them are PQX or PPX, having a first/last gen SS mobo with a eMMC could be rare imo, but I could see what I have.

Is there something, let's say, intriguing that you want to know?

 

[sandungas]

I think the REX is overheating on idle because of the cell's ihs, but in the case of the RSX, it seems they reduced sizes but not consumption? That die is smaller, and btw, rams are only two but bigger than in 40nms. This is kinda absent when the syscon kicks in, which makes no sense to me lol. By seeing the temps I read, there's no that much difference when we're going from 30% and above. But this could be really important when having a bad tim state or even better, >30ºC ambient temperature. This can make a difference in between a bga damage or a dead RSX.

The IHS of the last CELL revision is very thin, it really looks like well packaged but there is a thermal paste/adhesive under it, so it could happen that was bad applyed and had a bad performance since the first day it came out of factory
Other than that... you should keep atention at how the big metal heatsink "lands" on the IHS. In some PS3 models it could happen that the RF interference shields are "pushing" the heatsink outside, or are forcing it to rotate a bit, usually caused by a bad assembly of the parts, but it could also happen by deformations of them, are just metal, not manufactured with a huge precission, there could be differences of 1mm or 2mm in between different PS3 units

The halving of the number of RAM/VRAM chips is somthing usual in all the PlayStations, is going to happen in the PS5 too
For the system RAM they starts with 8, and at some point they reduces the number to 4 (where every chip have double of the capacity than previous revision), and eventually to 2
In the PS3 RSX they did it too in the VRAM chips at the corners of the RSX from 4 to 2
Only depends of the manufacturing costs and the availability of that chips of bigger capacities. Is a great way to design the "slim" models because the motherboard size is reduced by the presence of that chips... but also by the (usually huge) data buses connecting them. Removing chips is nice, but removing the buses is even better

I guess syscon firmware have some settings related with that but right now i dont know how is configured

I do have some eMMC but I believe most of them are PQX or PPX, having a first/last gen SS mobo with a eMMC could be rare imo, but I could see what I have.

Is there something, let's say, intriguing that you want to know?

I was asking because this list https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Platform_ID (is very important for everyone)
The missing PS3 models are the ones without the blue tag "confirmed" at right, if you have some of them, please run this app and report back https://github.com/bucanero/psl1ghtv2_ports/releases
We need the exact motherboard name (so is needed to open the PS3 to read it), the name "cokXXX" for it, and the PS3 model
As curiosity sake... in the SuperSlim PS3 models the flash type can be deduced from the suffix (A, B, or C) of the PS3 model name, as example: (CECH-4xxx A = SuperSlim eMMC 12gb internal storage)

 

[ElGris]

@sandungas I totally forgot about that crappy thermal adhesive, the reason why Doublesadvocate damaged his cell. I'm sure that that adhesive is the main reason of the overheating while on idle, plus the ihs being really small give you less area to make contact with the actual heatsink. Where the normal ihs used in other revisions is taking advantage. The amount of pressure and TIM was practically the same in both REXs I tested, I mean, both were having a lot more than the 40nm RSXs. The other thing I mentioned was the size of the 28nm, not giving you any cooling advantage whatsoever. So in the paper is less but in the practice is more temperature? HMMMM..

It could be the same case as the cell, less area to disipate heat. Only Nvidia knows..

The missing PS3 models are the ones without the blue tag "confirmed" at right, if you have some of them, please run this app and report back

So basically the missing ones are only these? Can you confirm me?

MPX-001(NOR)
MSX-001 eMMC
PPX-001(NOR)
RTX-001(NOR)
REX-001(NOR)

Is this is all, it's gonna be a child's play I also have a E3 in case some of mine are dead. There's no escape. The only one that I think it's gonna be really hard is the MSX, I think I never saw one of those with a eMMC.

Spoiler: A random dump

******* Getting flash type *******
Flash type : NOR
Reversed : NO
******* Getting SKU identification datas *******
idps = 0x13
metldr0 = 0xF9B0
metldr1 = 0x0F97
metldrkey = 0x16EB34DCDFC0625C34DB9920
bootldr0 = 0x301B
bootldr1 = 0x301B
bootldrsize = 0x301F0
Matching SKU : OK
CECH-42xxB/C (PPX-001 or PQX-001)
Minimum version 4.53
WARNING: The machine this dump belongs to is currently not downgradable!

I'll be looking for the mobos using littleballup's script. I make dumps of all my consoles, I didn't finish though, but this is a fast way of seeing where to look

Btw this "motherboard model not reported", this means the guy didn't state if it were a NOR or eMMC, or am I missing something?

CECH-43xxA

RTX-001(eMMC) ?

CokR30

N/A

0xD8

hardcoded - needs to be confirmed

CokR30 confirmed for CECH-4301A/FW-min:4.60 (motherboard model not reported)

 

[sandungas]

So basically the missing ones are only these? Can you confirm me?

MPX-001(NOR)
MSX-001 eMMC
PPX-001(NOR)
RTX-001(NOR)
REX-001(NOR)

Yes, if you want to look at the list from a different perspective take a look at the source code i published here https://www.psx-place.com/threads/release-ps3-advanced-tools.34104/page-6#post-327852
There is no need to understand what is doing exactly, but keep attention at the lines that are commented out (surrounded by /* and */)... this means are speculative, that code lines are disabled, waiting for a confirmation

Basically, we are trying to get a confirmation of:
CokM10 <--- in theory... this is a MPX-001(NOR)
CokM40 <--- in theory... this is a MSX-001(eMMC)
CokN30 <--- in theory... this is a NPX-001(eMMC)
CokP20 <--- in theory... this is a PPX-001(NOR)
CokR10 <--- in theory... this is a RTX-001(NOR)
CokR20 <--- in theory... this is a REX-001(NOR)

If you have one of them it would be great to have a confirmation, so i will update wiki... and eventually that code, intended to be used in other tools, apps, etc...

Btw this "motherboard model not reported", this means the guy didn't state if it were a NOR or eMMC, or am I missing something?[/SIZE]

CECH-43xxA

RTX-001(eMMC) ?

CokR30

N/A

0xD8

hardcoded - needs to be confirmed

CokR30 confirmed for CECH-4301A/FW-min:4.60 (motherboard model not reported)

Additionally, we need another confirmation of the "CokR30" because the person who reported it didnt mentioned the motherboard name (because he/she didnt opened the console to read the name "etched" in the motherboard)
From that report we just know the "CokR30" was a CECH-43xx series with an eMMC (because the suffix "A" at the ending of the reported PS3 model name), but there are 2 motherboards that falls into this description, it was either a RTX-001(eMMC) or a REX-001(eMMC)
The current table in wiki is assuming "CokR30" belongs to RTX-001(eMMC)... just because someone else reported that the REX-001(eMMC) is "CokR40"
You know... is like an elimination process... from the 2 posible motherboard candidates for "CokR30" one of them was already using a different name... so the only other left is the winner... but this is not an accurate way to check it... is just that there are lot of probabilities to be that way, but we are not completly sure

Is this is all, it's gonna be a child's play I also have a E3 in case some of mine are dead. There's no escape. The only one that I think it's gonna be really hard is the MSX, I think I never saw one of those with a eMMC.

Spoiler: A random dump

******* Getting flash type *******
Flash type : NOR
Reversed : NO
******* Getting SKU identification datas *******
idps = 0x13
metldr0 = 0xF9B0
metldr1 = 0x0F97
metldrkey = 0x16EB34DCDFC0625C34DB9920
bootldr0 = 0x301B
bootldr1 = 0x301B
bootldrsize = 0x301F0
Matching SKU : OK
CECH-42xxB/C (PPX-001 or PQX-001)
Minimum version 4.53
WARNING: The machine this dump belongs to is currently not downgradable!

I'll be looking for the mobos using littleballup's script. I make dumps of all my consoles, I didn't finish though, but this is a fast way of seeing where to look

If the console boots... is better to use the "PS3 Advanced Tools" from the link i posted (the PKG can be downloaded from bucanero github) because is reading the "CokXXX" name (platform_id) directly from the syscon

 

[ElGris]

Yes, if you want to look at the list from a different perspective take a look at the source code i published here https://www.psx-place.com/threads/release-ps3-advanced-tools.34104/page-6#post-327852
There is no need to understand what is doing exactly, but keep attention at the lines that are commented out (surrounded by /* and */)... this means are speculative, that code lines are disabled, waiting for a confirmation

Basically, we are trying to get a confirmation of:
CokM10 <--- in theory... this is a MPX-001(NOR)
CokM40 <--- in theory... this is a MSX-001(eMMC)
CokN30 <--- in theory... this is a NPX-001(eMMC)
CokP20 <--- in theory... this is a PPX-001(NOR)
CokR10 <--- in theory... this is a RTX-001(NOR)
CokR20 <--- in theory... this is a REX-001(NOR)

If you have one of them it would be great to have a confirmation, so i will update wiki... and eventually that code, intended to be used in other tools, apps, etc...


Additionally, we need another confirmation of the "CokR30" because the person who reported it didnt mentioned the motherboard name (because he/she didnt opened the console to read the name "etched" in the motherboard)


If the console boots... is better to use the "PS3 Advanced Tools" from the link i posted (the PKG can be downloaded from bucanero github) because is reading the "CokXXX" name (platform_id) directly from the syscon

Alright, as soon as I finish I'll posting back

 

[sandungas]

Alright, as soon as I finish I'll posting back

Nice, i think the fastest way to do it is by running the tool in all your PS3 that you consider that could be a candidate for that 7 unknown "CokXXX" names
The tool generates a .txt file in USB... if you see one of the unknown "CokXXX" names in the .txt the next step is to check the motherboard name (this really requires a visual inspection)

But that visual inspection is only needed incase you are not sure about the motherboard name, i guess you opened all that PS3 in the past (either to repair them or to change thermal paste, etc) and at that point you was able to read the motherboard name
Personally... when i start messing around with a PS3 (dumping flash, etc...) i use to create a .txt file in PC with the serial number as the filename, inside it i copy the IDPS, EID root key, motherboard name, etc... (i use to be picky with hardware, i have some with long lists of component names, lol)
Or maybe you have photos of the day you opened it where it can be confirmed the motherboard name, etc...

 

[ElGris]

I already saw what that tools does, it's great

The problem is, all my SSs are already assembled, so I'll have to open them up in order to see the code number/model.

Personally... when i start messing around with a PS3 (dumping flash, etc...) i use to create a .txt file in PC with the serial number as the filename, inside it i copy the IDPS, EID root key, motherboard name, etc... (i use to be picky with hardware, i have some with long lists of component names, lol)

I have and excel of them but is not for all that info, sadly haha. I'll need to generate a column now with this new data. I thought that with having the dump "just in case" was enough ;(

 

[ElGris]

The first two:

MPX
Platform ID: CokM10
Product Code: 00 88
Product Sub Code: 00 0D
Hardware Config: 4E00FFFF1603BC2C
Syscon Fimware Version: 098F.0000000000000000 (EEPROM: 0000000000000000)
Bringup Count: 1437, Shutdown Count: 1336
Runtime: 509 Days, 20 Hours, 59 Minutes, 44 Seconds

REX
Platform ID: CokR20
Product Code: 00 88
Product Sub Code: 00 13
Hardware Config: 4E00FFFF2203BC2C
Syscon Fimware Version: 09A4.0000000000000000 (EEPROM: 0000000000000000)
Bringup Count: 2596, Shutdown Count: 2342
Runtime: 242 Days, 5 Hours, 14 Minutes, 28 Seconds