PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[ElGris]

@Yugonibblit Yeah, OG tantalums are like a WWII tanks lmao. But they lose capacitance according to my multimeter, it's ok I guess.

Do you have any BC PS3 that you fixed and ran for several months without issue? I have the feeling that the processors (specially the RSX) are capacitor eaters lol. I have that idea, and I didn't know tantalums could be damaged for "some currents" (maybe that one in the bridge wire?). They seem to be a little weak in that aspect, rather they are cheap or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor#Current_surge,_peak_or_pulse_current

Did anybody know that some high quality tantalums come with a fuse? These boys like to go in short like a group of friends in any Jason movie lol. https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttii...-o/kemet/products/kemet_tantalum_sm_t496.html

 

[Sabino Antonucci]

@Sabino Antonucci That's definitely a NEC issue, you should replace a few, or all of them if you are able to.

@Workz_777

"the more capacitors = the more it worked"

So we have now the first general rule for the NEC topic. Since you could tried a lot of brands and many designs, is nice to know that in this particular YLOD problem, the goal is just one: Putting some nice quality tantalums and trying to reach the correct capacitance to make the console boot, and from there, there's only extra-capacitance (+durability) for the console, 'cause we all know that capacitors lose capacitance with time. My question is, how many days did you try it with heave charge like TLOU? It's important, even for that mix with those MLCC.

@Blubberz Many people don't know anything about electronics, the little they know, they learnt it here in this thread by seeing experiments made by others, and they had to buy mininum stuff to perform this, and some could revive their consoles, and others couldn't, but it was that or selling it for parts, or the trash. So this tutorial comes handy for many people, it's just luck, 'cause finding a short is really complicated, and if we need to use a bga machine to test a faulty RSX or any bga issue, we're in troubles, right? Most people don't want to pay for a fix like this, and they're right, and maybe most technicians will avoid this console in particular..

EDIT: Btw @Yugonibblit, what tantalums are you using? Could you share some secret info? haha.

I took the PlayStation to a technician and he added additional tantalum capacitors without removing the original NEC / TOKIN and it seems that since then it has returned to work (for now it is 2 days)

 

[LeoTW630]

Sorry, I used Google Translate to post
I hope everyone can understand

Hi everyone, would you like to ask
My PS3 60GB also happened to YLOD in 2020/02.
When the situation happened, I searched the Internet to solve YLDO to find this discussion.
According to what was written in the discussion, I changed the CELL&RSX NEC/Tokins to 470uF Tantalums
"One NEC/Tokins for 6 470uF Tantalums"

After the modification, the PS3 can be turned on. TEST Run GT6 72 hours The status of the PS3 is OK.
Follow up also play PS2 and PS3 games during this period

But, when I want to turn it on again on 6/26, YLOD happens again.

Because I thought it was a problem with the 470uF Tantalums I replaced
So I replaced 330uF Tantalums again
"One NEC/Tokins for 8 330uF Tantalums"

Reboot after replacement but still the same YLOD

I would like to ask, did I make some mistakes while repairing the place?
Or is there a solution to the same problem that can be shared?

After removing the modified capacitors, the impedance of the CELL power supply terminal is 3.2ohm
The impedance of the RSX power terminal is 2.2ohm

Not sure if my CELL & RSX has any problems
Is there a way to measure first to see if my CELL & RSX has any problems?

I read the article modified by workz_777 and feel that the workz_777 approach is quite reasonable
When replacing the Tantalums capacitors, the path from the power supply to the CELL&RSX is re-modified so that it feels more reasonable

If you can't find OE128 to replace it, you will try to modify it according to the modification method of workz_777

I hope to find a final solution here to save my PS3

Thank you all
thank!!!

 

[aminiani]

I took the PlayStation to a technician and he added additional tantalum capacitors without removing the original NEC / TOKIN and it seems that since then it has returned to work (for now it is 2 days)

how can we do that?do you any photo of that?
if somebody has any photo of the adding tantals without removing NEC please upload

 

[Sabino Antonucci]

at the moment I don't have the console at home yet but it should be a similar thing

 

[Yugonibblit]

@Yugonibblit Yeah, OG tantalums are like a WWII tanks lmao. But they lose capacitance according to my multimeter, it's ok I guess.

Do you have any BC PS3 that you fixed and ran for several months without issue? I have the feeling that the processors (specially the RSX) are capacitor eaters lol. I have that idea, and I didn't know tantalums could be damaged for "some currents" (maybe that one in the bridge wire?). They seem to be a little weak in that aspect, rather they are cheap or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum_capacitor#Current_surge,_peak_or_pulse_current

Did anybody know that some high quality tantalums come with a fuse? These boys like to go in short like a group of friends in any Jason movie lol. https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttii...-o/kemet/products/kemet_tantalum_sm_t496.html

Yes I have five that work flawlessly, keep in mind all have been completely delidid and new thermal past also, only one needed reflow, also all were done with 32 tantulum's at 470uf. And solid copper wire at least 14 to 16 gauge for jumper wire.

 

[squeept]

@Workz_777 maybe you can assemble one of these and send it to @squeept so he can run it through his oscope? Either way nice clean work man.

I'll whip something up next time I run in to a bad tokin. I'm just getting back to work after finishing a few weeks of home and garden projects. I tore down the fatties I had waiting here and no dice. Buying more now.

There is still not enough data or information suggested in the thread that this fix is for most of the YLOD PS3s. It absolutely boggles my mind people will immediately jump to this fix without performing any troubleshooting. 129 pages and I've seen two people try to utilize a oscilloscope. Additionally, some people who claimed this worked never seemed to have come back and reported if their Playstation was still functional or not. It's the same as saying a reflow worked but never reporting back your findings.

I'm still sitting at 3 confirmed bad caps out of 80 some systems. Where were you when I needed backup here 6 months ago?!?

On that note, a few of us have started a new thread to try to document error codes

I'll grab that stuff soon so I can let y'all know what the syscon says with a confirmed bad tokin.

 

[Jack K]

I ha

I'll whip something up next time I run in to a bad tokin. I'm just getting back to work after finishing a few weeks of home and garden projects. I tore down the fatties I had waiting here and no dice. Buying more now.



I'm still sitting at 3 confirmed bad caps out of 80 some systems. Where were you when I needed backup here 6 months ago?!?



I'll grab that stuff soon so I can let y'all know what the syscon says with a confirmed bad tokin.

i have four units fixed one ylod after 2 weeks other three running I will be reporting on longevity. Another 5 units waiting for more caps.

 

[aminiani]

at the moment I don't have the console at home yet but it should be a similar thing

i guess that every caps are 1000uf..

 

[Blubberz]

I'm still sitting at 3 confirmed bad caps out of 80 some systems. Where were you when I needed backup here 6 months ago?!?

Well, I read this topic 7 months ago and did not think much of it. I honestly did not expect this topic would gain so much traction and dramatically shift people's idea of what exactly is wrong. As an engineer working in the Semiconductor field it is very well documented and agreed upon in the academic world that BGA with lead-free solder has some inherent issues (especially around the time they were manufactured). However, that does not mean I am not open minded to the idea that there CAN be an issue with the capacitors. I am more frustrated with the idea that people do not approach this scientifically and treat each Playstation 3 as their own entity and troubleshoot them individually.

 

[marciolsf]

As an engineer working in the Semiconductor field it is very well documented and agreed upon in the academic world that BGA with lead-free solder has some inherent issues

It's interesting to hear from someone in that field! Can you tell us more about it?

 

[wrx884]

It's interesting to hear from someone in that field! Can you tell us more about it?

Almost certain squeept and many others have already touched on this at the early stages in the thread so he would just be repeating himself really.

 

[Deus]

Almost certain squeept and many others have already touched on this at the early stages in the thread so he would just be repeating himself really.

Those are only assumptions, not real studies or research.

 

[Deus]

It's interesting to hear from someone in that field! Can you tell us more about it?

Almost certain squeept and many others have already touched on this at the early stages in the thread so he would just be repeating himself really.

Those are only assumptions, not real studies or research.

@marciolsf and anyone interested, I created a new thread to answer. Not assumptions but real studies.
"Reballing fix or fiction ?":
https://www.psx-place.com/threads/reballing-fix-or-fiction.30251/#post-249257

 

[LSL]

Hiya All, success!! ...with Tantalums + MLCCs combination, only on bridge wire.

Thank you Workz_777 for idea! This is my version with tantalum chinese only!

I intend to include the bridge this way:

 

[LSL]

Only under load with an oscilloscope.



With my oscilloscope, all AC or DC coupling changed was the voltage that the signal was centered around. The trigger level shouldn't matter since you're saving it to memory instead of looking at the signal live. If it has a setting for 50mv, just remember that you'll need to adjust the vertical axis to see the same signal. Each vertical "square" would be 50mv, and the signal will be around 1.2V, so you'll need to move the vertical axis about 24 "squares" down to see it. On my scope, I can adjust the vertical axis after the image is saved. So you could try catching it at 200mv since it's easier to find, then once the image is saved see if you can change it to 50mv and find it again with the vertical axis knob.

Regardless, from the 2 images you posted, I'm 100% certain that both sets of your capacitors have failed.

edit: and if I am saying the caps are bad, they are DEFINITELY bad...

Thank you for hint. Before change NEc by tantalum I checked errors by UART, so I decided changed them.

 

[joe musashi]

Thank you Workz_777 for idea! This is my version with tantalum chinese only!

I intend to include the bridge this way:

how did u do that can u learn me

 

[LSL]

how did u do that can u learn me

Years ago a friend gave me many kits of electronical introduction and each kit have 2 copper strips.

I remove these copper strips and make them straight.

I cut two thin parts and one wider.

I solder the tantalums on this copper strips and finally solder on PS3 board

 

[aminiani]

i installed bride wires and continuity checked but still non-instant YLOD

 

[squeept]

copper strips

That looks like brass to me. Brass can have quite a bit more resistance than copper, and since these are moving so many amps, I'd be concerned about them heating up and burning. I'd at least check out some of it with a multimeter from the same batch you pulled the others from and make sure it's not some garbage pot metal with a resistance of like 40 ohms.