PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

UPDATE:

I can't get the positive metal off.

I'm going to try and scrape some of the board just like in the MyMateVince video below and solder the positive to there instead to avoid going over the metal

@ 13.00

Wish me luck!
 
SeanRanklin said:
DONE. Feeling much more confident. Just a dab of solder and time for the tantalums...
Click to expand...
image.jpg
 
Well, it was an absolute disaster. I can't solder. Not sure if it's the iron itself but as soon as I lift the iron off the solder, the solder solidified almost instantly. is it just a weak iron? If need be, I can buy a new one.

As a result, I basically butchered it. The tantalums sit way too high that I can't even get the top metal cover on top of it to test it. I'm going to have to remove everything and start all over, but before that I need clarification as to why the solder solidifies the second I lift the iron? Is it a technique or is my iron no good?

This is what I am using:

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-soldering-iron---240v-30w/17012.html

E010EEFE-7E0B-4E00-B364-45B965EE118A.jpeg
 
SeanRanklin said:
Well, it was an absolute disaster. I can't solder. Not sure if it's the iron itself but as soon as I lift the iron off the solder, the solder solidified almost instantly. is it just a weak iron? If need be, I can buy a new one.

As a result, I basically butchered it. The tantalums sit way too high that I can't even get the top metal cover on top of it to test it. I'm going to have to remove everything and start all over, but before that I need clarification as to why the solder solidifies the second I lift the iron? Is it a technique or is my iron no good?

This is what I am using:

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-soldering-iron---240v-30w/17012.html

View attachment 25605
Click to expand...

Its ur Iron id say more than anything, the 30W one is pretty much for small soldering like joining small gauge wires and thats pretty much it. Not to say u cant get it to work as u still can with low melt alloy (or even lead solder not lead free) but its struggling to heat up the area needed and hold that correct temp that u need for a longer period. This is where flux will generally come in and take over and do the work for u but basically the PCB is acting like one big heat sink, especially the negative side. If ur going to buy another u need at least to double what u have so 50-60W should work fine.

Now that i know ur an aussie too jaycar or altronics will be the better places to buy one if u go down that path really will just depend on ur budget and how often u think u will use it? but these will offer u with a more variety of tips and a better brand so u wont be as restricted which is kinda important.

Do u have a data sheet for the tant caps ur using?? if they are and sit taller than 2.8mm they will hit on the frame on that side of the board like u found out, especially if u decide to do more on that side. With the metal tabs that ur not removing, it will add to that height so u might have a couple things to consider to re do here or mayb even modify to make them work. U could test this as is but if u put too much pressure on those caps as they are u could break ur solder joins with out knowing as they could be close to being cold joins already.
 
SeanRanklin said:
Well, it was an absolute disaster. I can't solder. Not sure if it's the iron itself but as soon as I lift the iron off the solder, the solder solidified almost instantly. is it just a weak iron? If need be, I can buy a new one.

As a result, I basically butchered it. The tantalums sit way too high that I can't even get the top metal cover on top of it to test it. I'm going to have to remove everything and start all over, but before that I need clarification as to why the solder solidifies the second I lift the iron? Is it a technique or is my iron no good?

This is what I am using:

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-soldering-iron---240v-30w/17012.html

View attachment 25605
Click to expand...

They're solidifying that fast because the board absorbs the heat very, very quickly. You can try with hotter irons, but there's definitely a risk of ruining the pads themselves.

I struggle with the removing those strips also -- what i do is put a dab or two of flux, then heat up the pad until it all goes molten; sometimes I even need to move the iron side to side along the strip until it's all molten. I keep my pick on my other hand, and work on the strip as the solder melts, and slow remove it. It takes a couple of takes to fully remove it, but i'm patient :)
 
I am itching to get a first revision defective fat tom. I currently have eleven 330uf tants left from my previous repair. Based on the experienced repairers here, which side should i allot my last 11? The cell be or the rsx? Just to gamble my chances of it booting up before i order more, which might take another week or 2 to get here. Another factor is that this quarantine has given me time to try and fix a few things.

Sent from my TRT-LX2 using Tapatalk
 
Even in a higher wattage iron, if you're using one that has the heating element in the handle that heats up a solid tip, you're still going to have a huge issue with thermal recovery when you touch the board.

Ideally, you'd want to upgrade to something with a cartridge style tip, where the heating element is inside the tip itself. They are much more expensive, but I strongly advocate the "buy once, cry once" mentality for something like a soldering station where a lower quality tool can cause more in damages than the money you saved by getting a cheap one. Also why I keep screaming at everyone to buy an oscilloscope before they attempt this potentially damaging repair.

Here's some propaganda from JBC -
. Pay attention to the temperature graphs as they touch a regular through hole solder joint. Tip temperature drops almost 50 degrees until it's taken back off the joint. That's on a 120 watt station with the heating element directly inside of the tip. Now guess at what's happening with a dollar store iron being held against a nearly solid plate of copper.

Now, the JBC stations are probably cost prohibitive for a hobbyist - I pay more for tips than most people pay for irons. Pace, Metcal, and Hakko have some attractive cartridge style options at around $300 USD. The Hakko FX-888D is currently widely considered the Cadillac of affordable irons. It is NOT a cartridge style, but it is very, very capable for only about $100 USD. If that still seems steep, think about how much hassle it would have saved on just this one single use, and then you still have it to use for the rest of your life afterwards.

A preheater would also aid in correcting the issue, but I shudder to suggest that knowing it leads to people putting things in their kitchen oven...
 
Last edited:
marciolsf said:
They're solidifying that fast because the board absorbs the heat very, very quickly. You can try with hotter irons, but there's definitely a risk of ruining the pads themselves.

I struggle with the removing those strips also -- what i do is put a dab or two of flux, then heat up the pad until it all goes molten; sometimes I even need to move the iron side to side along the strip until it's all molten. I keep my pick on my other hand, and work on the strip as the solder melts, and slow remove it. It takes a couple of takes to fully remove it, but i'm patient :)
Click to expand...

I've used so much flux already but the strips won't budge at all. They are so tiny and microscopic that nothing will budge them. Again, I think I'm working with bad, dollar store equipment and it's screening me over. I just hope I can remove the tantalums without causing any further damage to the board.

marciolsf said:
Here's a pretty decent guide on soldering surface mount components.
Click to expand...

Thank you, will check it out.
 
squeept said:
Even in a higher wattage iron, if you're using one that has the heating element in the handle that heats up a solid tip, you're still going to have a huge issue with thermal recovery when you touch the board.

Ideally, you'd want to upgrade to something with a cartridge style tip, where the heating element is inside the tip itself. They are much more expensive, but I strongly advocate the "buy once, cry once" mentality for something like a soldering station where a lower quality tool can cause more in damages than the money you saved by getting a cheap one. Also why I keep screaming at everyone to buy an oscilloscope before they attempt this potentially damaging repair.

Here's some propaganda from JBC -
. Pay attention to the temperature graphs as they touch a regular through hole solder joint. Tip temperature drops almost 50 degrees until it's taken back off the joint. That's on a 120 watt station with the heating element directly inside of the tip. Now guess at what's happening with a dollar store iron being held against a nearly solid plate of copper.

Now, the JBC stations are probably cost prohibitive for a hobbyist - I pay more for tips than most people pay for irons. Pace, Metcal, and Hakko have some attractive cartridge style options at around $300 USD. The Hakko FX-888D is currently widely considered the Cadillac of affordable irons. It is NOT a cartridge style, but it is very, very capable for only about $100 USD. If that still seems steep, think about how much hassle it would have saved on just this one single use, and then you still have it to use for the rest of your life afterwards.

A preheater would also aid in correcting the issue, but I shudder to suggest that knowing it leads to people putting things in their kitchen oven...
Click to expand...
Jeez, just by reading this, I hope I haven't actually already destroyed my board. No doubt some of these joints are cold soldered for sure. I'm going to try and remove these and start again with better equipment, but i fear it's too late.
 
Chino Moreno said:
I am itching to get a first revision defective fat tom. I currently have eleven 330uf tants left from my previous repair. Based on the experienced repairers here, which side should i allot my last 11? The cell be or the rsx? Just to gamble my chances of it booting up before i order more, which might take another week or 2 to get here. Another factor is that this quarantine has given me time to try and fix a few things.

Sent from my TRT-LX2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I would start with the RSX. Start with the top side(the side under the cell and rsx) replace those two and see how that goes. The RSX takes a beating on most systems. Good luck!
 
SeanRanklin said:
Jeez, just by reading this, I hope I haven't actually already destroyed my board. No doubt some of these joints are cold soldered for sure. I'm going to try and remove these and start again with better equipment, but i fear it's too late.
Click to expand...
Hopefully I can offer some encouragement, I had the same issue with the very first board I worked on. I messed that board up trying to get them off, eventually getting them off with a heat gun. the NEC replacement did work. They are a PAIN. You just keep going even when it feels like something is going to break. These boards take ALOT of heat. I am sure someone has mentioned this but see if you can get some flux, that will do wonders. Now my first board did die, but thats cause i dropped a knife on it.... thats what killed it not my bad solder skills hahah
 
Epixjava said:
Hopefully I can offer some encouragement, I had the same issue with the very first board I worked on. I messed that board up trying to get them off, eventually getting them off with a heat gun. the NEC replacement did work. They are a PAIN. You just keep going even when it feels like something is going to break. These boards take ALOT of heat. I am sure someone has mentioned this but see if you can get some flux, that will do wonders. Now my first board did die, but thats cause i dropped a knife on it.... thats what killed it not my bad solder skills hahah
Click to expand...
I have flux, will def be using it to remove these crappily installed tantalums. Ah, the joys of being a noob!

The internet is both a blessing and curse, as everyone makes things look so easy, easy enough that when you try and attempt, it goes almost nothing to plan lol

I must get these caps off safely.
 
If you have a local "maker space" they would likely have a very decent soldering station available for use, and someone happy to help with any questions.
 
If your solder iron is 40W you don't need anything else. The secret here is in adding a good amount of solder or "tin" to the sides of every contact of the NECs (with a good amount of flux too). Then, with the tip of the iron, go from one corner of the contact to the other, for a few seconds until the tin goes something liquid, then you're ready to use something really sharp to remove that crap those failed caps leave. The tin there is really old, and you need new stuff to make it something usable, and with the help of the flux you can maintain the temperature, like a bubble, you just need practice, that's all.

If the tip of your solder is black, burned, use resine to clean it. See that on youtube.
 
ElGris said:
If your solder iron is 40W you don't need anything else. The secret here is in adding a good amount of solder or "tin" to the sides of every contact of the NECs (with a good amount of flux too). Then, with the tip of the iron, go from one corner of the contact to the other, for a few seconds until the tin goes something liquid, then you're ready to use something really sharp to remove that crap those failed caps leave. The tin there is really old, and you need new stuff to make it something usable, and with the help of the flux you can maintain the temperature, like a bubble, you just need practice, that's all.

If the tip of your solder is black, burned, use resine to clean it. See that on youtube.
Click to expand...

As soon as i add solder to the tip, i end up with a huge messy blob. I'm trying to work with small amounts as per Vinces video but his tools are just way too superior.

At this point i just want to outsource this job to more capable hands. Labor will be reimbursed of course.
 
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