PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

Md Hesam · Jul 30, 2019

How are RSX & CELL maximum temperature?

sandungas · Jul 30, 2019

After the shortcircuit is hard to know, maybe the RSX was damaged there

Revak3115 · Jul 30, 2019

sandungas said:
After the shortcircuit is hard to know, maybe the RSX was damaged there

It did this before the short circuit.
To me it feels like the either the CPU or GPU aren't getting enough power to supply for demands.
IIRC the CELL upscales PS2 games On BC systems correct?

now when I had all the caps bridged together it still did this, but that solder job was quite sloppy so maybe I just need to do it again?
(Rn only the Bottom side of the caps are bridged next to the main chips) maybe I need to bridge all the caps again?

I truly don't think it's a GPU/CPU failure since it only does this when it need to supply for demand in a Game

I just tested the system again
It loaded a ps2 game but froze immediately
Then it wouldn't get past the initial system Boot screen and froze. Now it doesn't display an image at all :/
Maybe I need to order a new set of caps?

Naked_Snake1995 · Jul 30, 2019

Revak3115 said:
It did this before the short circuit.
To me it feels like the either the CPU or GPU aren't getting enough power to supply for demands.
IIRC the CELL upscales PS2 games On BC systems correct?

now when I had all the caps bridged together it still did this, but that solder job was quite sloppy so maybe I just need to do it again?
(Rn only the Bottom side of the caps are bridged next to the main chips) maybe I need to bridge all the caps again?

I truly don't think it's a GPU/CPU failure since it only does this when it need to supply for demand in a Game

I just tested the system again
It loaded a ps2 game but froze immediately
Then it wouldn't get past the initial system Boot screen and froze. Now it doesn't display an image at all :/
Maybe I need to order a new set of caps?

No the CELL only Emulates the Emotion Engine MIPS CPU, but thats only for the CECHC/E Variants, in this case the RSX takes care of the Upconversion algorithm in the PlayStation2 System Software, on the CECHA/B, the CELL B/E stays mostly on idle, as non of the workload is needed to emulate nothing, since the PS2 Job is done by the dedicated PlayStation2 Hardware, this being the EE/GS and EDO RAM.

Graphics Artifacts usually happens for two reasons, when the GPU is about to die, in this case the substrate/underfill, or if not enough voltage is supplied to the Chip, but in this case i suspect its a dead chip unfortunately, the short circuit isn't a problem, as i had once on mine it didn't damage any component in any shape or form, so shorts are out of the question.

This also could be a low supply to the RSX, usually the machine before it leads to YLOD, you would start to experience Choppy Framerates, and after that coupled with a pair of black screens, usually leading to YLOD, but now if you don't have a picture thats even more troublesome, as thats the GLOD, happens when the RSX Chip is dead.

In order to know if is the RSX for sure, get a heat gun and heat the chip for 150°Cs for 5 min flat, if it shows picture again, then the culprit is the RSX, if not then must be something on the Tantalums side.

Also one thing i didn't mentioned, usually artifacts also happens when there is any bad VRAMs caused by a short, but i see you get none of them wired checkerboard patters, no it must be the Chip for sure.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

Revak3115 · Jul 30, 2019

Naked_Snake1995 said:
No the CELL only Emulates the Emotion Engine MIPS CPU, but thats only for the CECHC/E Variants, in this case the RSX takes care of the Upconversion algorithm in the PlayStation2 System Software, on the CECHA/B, the CELL B/E stays mostly on idle, as non of the workload is needed to emulate nothing, since the PS2 Job is done by the dedicated PlayStation2 Hardware, this being the EE/GS and EDO RAM.

Graphics Artifacts usually happens for two reasons, when the GPU is about to die, in this case the substrate/underfill, or if not enough voltage is supplied to the Chip, but in this case i suspect its a dead chip unfortunately, the short circuit isn't a problem, as i had once on mine it didn't damage any component in any shape or form, so shorts are out of the question.

This also could be a low supply to the RSX, usually the machine before it leads to YLOD, you would start to experience Choppy Framerates, and after that coupled with a pair of black screens, usually leading to YLOD, but now if you don't have a picture thats even more troublesome, as thats the GLOD, happens when the RSX Chip is dead.

In order to know if is the RSX for sure, get a heat gun and heat the chip for 150°Cs for 5 min flat, if it shows picture again, then the culprit is the RSX, if not then must be something on the Tantalums side.

Also one thing i didn't mentioned, usually artifacts also happens when there is any bad VRAMs caused by a short, but i see you get none of them wired checkerboard patters, no it must be the Chip for sure.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

I'm going to use a very thick wire now( 14 Gauge) instead of what I was using before

I don't think it's a failed GPU or anything since it worked completely fine just before I replaced the rest of the caps

Naked_Snake1995 · Jul 30, 2019

Revak3115 said:
I'm going to use a very thick wire now( 14 Gauge) instead of what I was using before

I don't think it's a failed GPU or anything since it worked completely fine just before I replaced the rest of the caps

Do that, your first mistake was to use a thin guage wire,but thats not problem to be worry with, but on another note, i still dont get it why bridging doesnt work, many people bridged each pair of Tantalum on each NEC Spot replaced,and they got it working, i am really entering into a mental shutdown here, are you sure you are bridging exactly like i have in the photo in the tutorial, Positive to Positive?

Revak3115 · Jul 30, 2019

Naked_Snake1995 said:
Do that, your first mistake was to use a thin guage wire,but thats not problem to be worry with, but on another note, i still dont get it why bridging doesnt work, many people bridged each pair of Tantalum on each NEC Spot replaced,and they got it working, i am really entering into a mental shutdown here, are you sure you are bridging exactly like i have in the photo in the tutorial, Positive to Positive?

Yes
Here's my progress with thicker wire

thin wire is the old photo

Naked_Snake1995 · Jul 30, 2019

Revak3115 said:
Yes
Here's my progress with thicker wire

thin wire is the old photo

Nice, report as soon as you got any results, at least i could sleep with a free consciousness

Revak3115 · Jul 30, 2019

Alright guys huge news

bridged all caps top and bottom with high gage wire

Have the system without the bottom plate by the chips
System runs perfectly fine now
Going to cut the metal off the shield where the old NECs would be so no pressure and reassemble

PS3/ps2 games are working fine as I write this

MC:LA tested and works in game

I also noticed that the HDD is running a bit slower then usual so the Game textures are loading a bit slower but no biggie

EDIT: reassembled the system cut the Metal shield to fix the pressure on the caps and wires
I didn't bother doing it for the top side for now, I prob will later on since the system is very sluggish on the XMB and loading and is freezing/ giving artifacts again (more proof that it has something to do with pressure on the caps since it barley had any pressure before I reassembled and that worked fine) And I couldn't get a ps1 game to run since the system froze on the XMB after I mounted the iso
So I just used the disc and it worked fine thankfully.
I can almost say this is resolved but not quite yet.
So my assumption of all this is

*you need a very thick wire
*Have no pressure on the New Caps, idk why but it defiantly fixed the issues
This PS3 basically went through Hell and back xD
-

LAST UPDATE:
Cut the rest of the ps3 metal shell
And my theory was right, pressure (on my caps at least) caused the issues described earlier( mangled graphics/freezing/unstable) I still feel the system is the tiniest bit choppy but maybe that's just me expecting the worst.
I used a lot of electrical tape to make sure nothing touches and shorts anywhere
Putting her back together now

-

Since MC:LA works i noticed the game renders slower then i think it should, this may be nothing at all or it could be something semi-important. all i use this PS3 for is PS1/PS2(Mostly) MC:LA is the only game that i have played on the system, i don't plan on playing anything newer then MC:LA, since this is my (Preferred PS2 System alongside my A01/E01 Systems)
if i do play a more demanding game and it does anything bad or out of the ordinary i will post a update here, just don't expect one anytime soon.
So it looks like my System is working fine and i hope it does for awhile. XMB still kinda sluggish/PS3 game renders far objects slower then i would like.
oh well i just hope the Freezing/Artifacting is gone for good
Thanks Again Everyone Who Helped me out in this painful journey.
i hope my errors/fixes help someone else out who plans on replacing ALL NEC/TOKINs
-
Also would this mean that the "GPU Failure"/Artifacting is caused by the NEC/TOKINs? i got all the symptoms of a GPU failure with my system, to me it seems like the NEC/TOKINs cause alot of these issues with the ps3.
so maybe after all these years the dreaded GPU Failure is possibly just a product of failed/dead NECs?
this has me wondering.

@Naked_Snake1995 @sandungas

Coaleb · Jul 31, 2019

So I finally got to solder some of my new caps. If I didn't solder the best on them would it cause the system to not load at all? I was replacing the cpu side of capacitors. The light shows green

Naked_Snake1995 · Jul 31, 2019

Revak3115 said:
Alright guys huge news

bridged all caps top and bottom with high gage wire

Have the system without the bottom plate by the chips
System runs perfectly fine now
Going to cut the metal off the shield where the old NECs would be so no pressure and reassemble

PS3/ps2 games are working fine as I write this
MC:LA tested and works in game

I also noticed that the HDD is running a bit slower then usual so the Game textures are loading a bit slower but no biggie

EDIT: reassembled the system cut the Metal shield to fix the pressure on the caps and wires
I didn't bother doing it for the top side for now, I prob will later on since the system is very sluggish on the XMB and loading and is freezing/ giving artifacts again (more proof that it has something to do with pressure on the caps since it barley had any pressure before I reassembled and that worked fine) And I couldn't get a ps1 game to run since the system froze on the XMB after I mounted the iso
So I just used the disc and it worked fine thankfully.
I can almost say this is resolved but not quite yet.
So my assumption of all this is

*you need a very thick wire
*Have no pressure on the New Caps, idk why but it defiantly fixed the issues
This PS3 basically went through Hell and back xD
-

LAST UPDATE:
Cut the rest of the ps3 metal shell
And my theory was right, pressure (on my caps at least) caused the issues described earlier( mangled graphics/freezing/unstable) I still feel the system is the tiniest bit choppy but maybe that's just me expecting the worst.
I used a lot of electrical tape to make sure nothing touches and shorts anywhere
Putting her back together now
-

Since MC:LA works i noticed the game renders slower then i think it should, this may be nothing at all or it could be something semi-important. all i use this PS3 for is PS1/PS2(Mostly) MC:LA is the only game that i have played on the system, i don't plan on playing anything newer then MC:LA, since this is my (Preferred PS2 System alongside my A01/E01 Systems)
if i do play a more demanding game and it does anything bad or out of the ordinary i will post a update here, just don't expect one anytime soon.
So it looks like my System is working fine and i hope it does for awhile. XMB still kinda sluggish/PS3 game renders far objects slower then i would like.
oh well i just hope the Freezing/Artifacting is gone for good
Thanks Again Everyone Who Helped me out in this painful journey.
i hope my errors/fixes help someone else out who plans on replacing ALL NEC/TOKINs

@Naked_Snake1995 @sandungas

Ladies and Gentlemen we have a hero, round of applause

PS: Don't forget to post pictures of your work.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

Revak3115 · Jul 31, 2019

Naked_Snake1995 said:
PS: Don't forget to post pictures of your work.

i will post later tmr, i am done with this system for now, just enjoying my PS2 games in 1080p xD

Seriously thank you for the whole post/help you have givin me.

Naked_Snake1995 · Jul 31, 2019

Revak3115 said:
i will post later tmr, i am done with this system for now, just enjoying my PS2 games in 1080p xD

Seriously thank you for the whole post/help you have givin me.

No worries lad, makes life easier for me for future repairs and researches about this issue, for whom wants to replace all the capacitors.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

sandungas · Jul 31, 2019

Btw @Revak3115 the thickness of the ground wire you was using originally in your first tests was fine, and i still think is only needed 1 wire for CELL and 1 wire for RSX (so 2 wires in total for the whole motherboard)

Revak3115 · Jul 31, 2019

sandungas said:
Btw @Revak3115 the thickness of the ground wire you was using originally in your first tests was fine, and i still think is only needed 1 wire for CELL and 1 wire for RSX (so 2 wires in total for the whole motherboard)

Maybe the old wire was fine but pressure on the caps themself was the problem too. I'm honesty afraid of testing any "demanding" games since MC:LA runs sluggish lol.

sandungas · Jul 31, 2019

Revak3115 said:
Maybe the old wire was fine but pressure on the caps themself was the problem too. I'm honesty afraid of testing any "demanding" games since MC:LA runs sluggish lol.

Yep, i think it was the pressure... and i wonder if the short circuit happend because the tape you used was very soft (so it made like an small hole through the tape with a pike of the solder)

Btw, for electronic jobs there is a tape that is perfect, probably a lot of you saw it before, because is used in laptops to isolate ram modules, the wifi/bt module, etc... everywhere

The original name is "kapton tape" (but is a copyrighted trademark, expensive stuff)
Is hard, it resists up to 350ºC (yeah you can solder in top of it)... is used in aerospatial industry to protect the satellites electronics from space radiation (lol, is true)

Is the kind of stuff that is better to buy a chinese clone instead of the original... because the clones are made of the same material and are cheap. The original material is "polymide tape" <--- try to search for this in ebay, aliexpress, etc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton

Revak3115 · Jul 31, 2019

sandungas said:
Yep, i think it was the pressure... and i wonder if the short circuit happend because the tape you used was very soft (so it made like an small hole through the tape with a pike of the solder)

Btw, for electronic jobs there is a tape that is perfect, probably a lot of you saw it before, because is used in laptops to isolate ram modules, the wifi/bt module, etc... everywhere

The original name is "kapton tape" (but is a copyrighted trademark, expensive stuff)
Is hard, it resists up to 350ºC (yeah you can solder in top of it)... is used in aerospatial industry to cover the satellites (lol, is true)

Is the kind of stuff that is better to buy a chinese clone instead of the original... because the clones are made of the same material and are cheap. The original material is "polymide tape" <--- try to search for this in ebay, aliexpress, etc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton

Ah thanks for this, I'm using 2 layers of black electrical tape right now over every component.

Im just confused why the system is sluggish in game still.
Have any ideas about that?

sandungas · Jul 31, 2019

Revak3115 said:
Ah thanks for this, I'm using 2 layers of black electrical tape right now over every component.

Im just confused why the system is sluggish in game still.
Have any ideas about that?

Maybe is the hdd... by now i would not open the PS3, is better to consider that the tokin replacement job was well done

I mean... keep the PS3 in quarentine for a couple of weeks, and in the next days make some stress tests playing a lot of games

For the hdd... there are many things you can try, but initially you should enter recovery menu and use the option "restore filesystem" and when is completed... enter again and use the other option "rebuild database"

But if you have other free hdd at home (to use it temporally in the PS3 for a few tests) is better to replace it
This is going to tell you for sure and in a easy way if the hdd have some problem

Revak3115 · Jul 31, 2019

sandungas said:
Maybe is the hdd... by now i would not open the PS3, is better to consider that the tokin replacement job was well done

I mean... keep the PS3 in quarentine for a couple of weeks, and in the next days make some stress tests playing a lot of games

For the hdd... there are many things you can try, but initially you should enter recovery menu and use the option "restore filesystem" and when is completed... enter again and use the other option "rebuild database"

But if you have other free hdd at home (to use it temporally in the PS3 for a few tests) is better to replace it
This is going to tell you for sure and in a easy way if the hdd have some problem

That may be it since It was a "dying" HDD I took from a slim so I could get the 120GBs

it's more concerning since the system started to do this after all the NEC replacements

but I did rebuild database and that seemed to fix it being slower at loading

like shadows and stuff render when you're next to them in game and it doesn't seem right at all
It very well could be the HDD since it's a iso

sandungas · Jul 31, 2019

Revak3115 said:
That may be it since It was a "dying" HDD I took from a slim so I could get the 120GBs

it's more concerning since the system started to do this after all the NEC replacements

but I did rebuild database and that seemed to fix it being slower at loading

like shadows and stuff render when you're next to them in game and it doesn't seem right at all
It very well could be the HDD since it's a iso

Right now im not sure which PS3 model you have, and not sure if the game midnight club was emulated perfectly in the PS3

I guess is better to make some test with a PS3 game in JB format (composed by looooot of small files and lot of folders)... this could be considered an stress test for the hdd

*Copy the game to internal hdd... dont load it from external usb hdd because what you are trying to check/stress is the internal hdd

PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

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