PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[RIP-Felix]

I've just repaired my console it's a CECH-C03 with all the advice I've been reading in this thread, thanks all.

the console would shut down whilst trying to play cod black ops 2 with a flashing red light, which created an error A0801001, the console had never give a YLOD

i tagged on 2 470ohm capacitors to the nec tokin on the cell/b and now it plays the game without turning off.

I wanted to post a photo, but it seems I don't have permission

FYI, adding parasite caps like that has limited effect. I know of at least one other person who had the issue return about a year later doing that. He replaced the tokins then to resolve it. So in the mean time I suggest preparing mentally for a full cap replacment to properly repair the filter.

Nice work with the diagnosis and band aide.

 

[Bowie75]

Thanks RIP-Felix.

Maybe it's because the cap completely fails and the 940 ohms isn't enough to replace the 1200, i may tag another one or two on just in case that would give me 1880 ohms

I had a few console now that have had 1 completely dead token, I've removed them all and tested them and found the 7 are all completely fine, with 1 dead.

 

[RIP-Felix]

It's not about loosing capacitance that needs to be added back. That's not how it works.

It's more about ESR, impeedance, and especially the shifting frequency response curve.

It's like placing a piece of plywood over a broken window. yes, it'll keep the rain out, but it's not a long term solution. The window needs replaced.

Now, the capacitor array you replace the tokins with are like coosing the window replacment. You can go with efficient double or even tripple paned argon gas filled windows. They'll make your house (ps3) more efficient, but you could also choose single paned windows that are cheap and not very good. The'll waste heat and energy, may be drafty or leak and then slowly damage the wall.

There is more engineering that goes into this tham most people realize.

Ok, more spcifically. Adding parasitic caps changes the frequency response curve with unknown effect on the combined response of the filter. It could be worse. Even if it appears to work, the shift in the curve could cause certain frequencies to pass into the RSX and have a negative effect.

 

[Bowie75]

Thanks for the info, it's appreciated.

So the way I see it is the best bet is to replace like for like, I do have a few NEC Tokin caps but I don't like the amount of heat I have to use to get them off and replaced.

I could remove them without heat, but it destroys the cap and I can't test it to see if it's the correct damaged cap, and I may be replacing a good cap.

I have a pre-heater and a hot air station, but it's still a risk of causing damage on a old machine with its original RSX

I suppose it's risk vs gain and it's currently working, maybe I'll change it in the future.

Also, what I have notice since I've added the caps is the Cell temp has dropped 4-5 degrees, maybe a bad cap was causing the cell to run a bit hotter also.

 

[RIP-Felix]

I think if one tokin is bad the rest will be soon to follow, so it's best to replace them all with a new filter that'll do as good a job as the tokins did originally. Ideally

well, bad tokins cause ripply/noise to enter the processor and interfere with communications. If a data packet doesnt get sent corectly it has to be resent. That eats up compute cycles, which is extra work. Which means more heat. Also, higher impeedance means more resistive heating. So yes, replacing caps can reduce temps.

 

[iVirtualZero]

PS3 Tantalizer - Beta Release (v0.2b)
(Order or Download from OSH Park HERE)
EDIT: I removed v0.2b when releasing v0.3b​

Notes:

• If you choose to use this PCB, you are doing so at your own risk! I cannot be held responsible for any damages or loss of life resulting from use of this product!
• This PCB is designed to make it easier and safer to attach tantalum/MLCC capacitors to your PS3. Removing the NEC/TOKINs and replacing with Tantalum/MLCC capacitors is an experimental mod not guaranteed to fix the problems you are experiencing. You must properly troubleshoot your console to decide if this mod is right for you.
  
• You must order a minimum of 3 boards. I recommend ordering 3x (currently 3x costs $4.20 - No I didn't plan that). That will get you get 9 total. That will be enough to replace all the NEC/TOKINs on a PS3 and give you a spare in case there is a defect in the other 8.
• MLCC pads are meant for 0805 case size.
• Tantalum pads are a standard 7.3x4.3x1.9mm (LxWxH). You can use other types of capacitors that fit this footprint, such as aluminum polymer, tantalum polymer, etc.
  
• You must choose 0.8mm board thickness in the options during checkout. This ensures it'll fit underneath the RF shield when you reassemble the console.
• You must buy 1.9mm height capacitors. This ensures it'll fit underneath the RF shield when you reassemble the console.
• You can download the Gerber files from OSH Park if you perfer to have another board house manufacture your Tantalizers. Just be sure they know the edges are castellated and that you need 0.8mm board thickness.

Pictures:

View attachment 32937 View attachment 32930 View attachment 32942 View attachment 32941View attachment 32939View attachment 32936 View attachment 32940

Discussion:
I recieved the latest alpha revision and it looks good. I got the castellated edges right this time and they wick the solder really easily. This was much easier to install without adding too much heat. I think they might be easiest to install with a chisel tip or perhaps a knife edge. I used a T12-C4 for the thermal mass. This worked well to drive the heat down to the rails, but did make it hard to control. So some of the Thermal VIAs got filled with solder, not a big deal. With flux they wicked well, and produced the easiest install I've had yet! So mission accomplished!

I have not attempted to use them yet, so they are untested on console. The one pictured above was installed on a dead board just to test how easy it is to install. I did confirm with a multimeter that the rails are not shorting or anything. They are electrically sound. The next step is to populate and test. I have opened the beta, so anyone can DL or order them from OSH Park.

Just be warned that they need a little trimming. They come from the factory with some burrs that need removed. Takes a few minutes, but it's not hard.
View attachment 32938 View attachment 32931

It's fine if you don't want to participate in the beta, potentially burning down your house or damaging your PS3. Once others and I have installed it and confirmed they work, I'll update the listing on OSH park with the v1.0, indicating a fully tested/working PCB.

I'm disappointed with the Tantelizer Mod. It's as if its not supplying enough power to my A01 PS3, I'm not sure if this is even made to work with the 90nm Models. It keeps crashing in game, frame rate dips when it can run a game only for it to crash, it flickers, sometimes I get a black screen, I can hear pop sounds in the audio, audio is out sync at times and sometimes it doesn't even boot up. All in all my console has become unstable after installing this mod. I'm not even getting WiFi and No Bluetooth either, where as before my console worked perfectly. It seems like Previous 32 470uf 6.3v Tantalum Caps likely to be high ESR caps, were able to supply enough power to the PS3. And this Tantelizer wasn't able to, and it's more difficult to install with the MLCC Caps. I went over my install multiple times to the point where I think I may have heat damaged the caps at this point with all of the reflowing. I guess from here, i will have to just undo all of this and put some replacement Tokins into this console.

 

[RIP-Felix]

I'm disappointed with the Tantelizer Mod. It's as if its not supplying enough power to my A01 PS3, I'm not sure if this is even made to work with the 90nm Models.

Interesting. 1st time hearing anyone having issue. Where did you get your caps and which ones did you get specifically?

It is designed to work for the 90nm models. They are overkill for later models, but still work.

It keeps crashing in game, frame rate dips when it can run a game only for it to crash, it flickers, sometimes I get a black screen, I can hear pop sounds in the audio, audio is out sync at times and sometimes it doesn't even boot up. All in all my console has become unstable after installing this mod. I'm not even getting WiFi and No Bluetooth either, where as before my console worked perfectly.

This sounds like a BGA/bump defect TBH. You say "all your consoles" (pleural). How many have exhibited issues after the tantalizer? And if you don't mind posting the errorlogs and console history of each of them that would be helpful.

Just because these issues occured after installing the tantalizers doesn't meat the tantalizer is at fault. Depending on how you remove the tokins and install the tantalizers it could stress the board and cause a BGA defect...for instance.

It seems like Previous 32 470uf 6.3v Tantalum Caps likely to be high ESR caps, were able to supply enough power to the PS3. And this Tantelizer wasn't able to, and it's more difficult to install with the MLCC Caps.

You don't have to use the MLCCs. 32x 470 is overkill and completely unnecessary. Wasting money at that point and it can actually cause issues.

I went over my install multiple times to the point where I think I may have heat damaged the caps at this point with all of the reflowing. I guess from here, i will have to just undo all of this and put some replacement Tokins into this console.

The tantalizers are just a PCB that routes copper to the footprint of polymer caps. The choice in caps used and how you install them is yours. As I stated in the release page, you don't even need them. Electrically they are equivalent to soldering directly to the motherboard and using bridge wires. If installed correctly, using the same number and type of caps, there should be no difference between doing it either way. They just make soldering easier, since you can install the polymer and MLCCs off the Motherboard on the tantalizer, which is much smaller and heats up quickly. Then you can simply solder the tantalizer in place. It's much easier than scraping away mask and trying to get enough heat into those ridiculous copper planes that sink all the heat.

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with yours, but I can assure you that these have been installed on hundreds of consoles now and from all the accounts I've heard before yours they worked beautifully. I've not had issue myself and have measured the voltage ripple and noise before/after. So while it's possible there could be an issue with yours, I assure you it's not an issue with the tantalizer design itself.

***EDIT***
Just noticed that you quoted an early design that I don't recommend using. That could be the issue. Although I stopped tharing that project revision when it was superceeded by later revisions and your photos apear to be a more recent version. This is the current release page and the one I update.

 

[iVirtualZero]

Interesting. 1st time hearing anyone having issue. Where did you get your caps and which ones did you get specifically?

It is designed to work for the 90nm models. They are overkill for later models, but still work.This sounds like a BGA/bump defect TBH. You say "all your consoles" (pleural). How many have exhibited issues after the tantalizer? And if you don't mind posting the errorlogs and console history of each of them that would be helpful.

Just because these issues occured after installing the tantalizers doesn't meat the tantalizer is at fault. Depending on how you remove the tokins and install the tantalizers it could stress the board and cause a BGA defect...for instance. You don't have to use the MLCCs. 32x 470 is overkill and completely unnecessary. Wasting money at that point and it can actually cause issues.The tantalizers are just a PCB that routes copper to the footprint of polymer caps. The choice in caps used and how you install them is yours. As I stated in the release page, you don't even need them. Electrically they are equivalent to soldering directly to the motherboard and using bridge wires. If installed correctly, using the same number and type of caps, there should be no difference between doing it either way. They just make soldering easier, since you can install the polymer and MLCCs off the Motherboard on the tantalizer, which is much smaller and heats up quickly. Then you can simply solder the tantalizer in place. It's much easier than scraping away mask and trying to get enough heat into those ridiculous copper planes that sink all the heat.

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with yours, but I can assure you that these have been installed on hundreds of consoles now and from all the accounts I've heard before yours they worked beautifully. I've not had issue myself and have measured the voltage ripple and noise before/after. So while it's possible there could be an issue with yours, I assure you it's not an issue with the tantalizer design itself.

***EDIT***
Just noticed that you quoted an early design that I don't recommend using. That could be the issue.

I have used the Panasonic 470uf 2.5v caps that you have recommended on your BOM along with the MLCC Caps which was all ordered from DigiKey and I have ran the Syscon check A0801001, A0801004 A0093004 and A0801002 which points to the caps. Not sure what's causing it to not work, i gave it my best to get it installed properly, but unfortunately I now have a faulty PS3. I previously installed 32x Tantalum Caps which I installed back in 2019 which worked perfectly in this unit until I switched to your mod which has lower ESR and replicates the Tokins better, but I failed to get my PS3 to work with it even with trying to reflow it. I will now undo this mod and just install some New Tokin Caps that I ordered and see if that gets it working again. I'm not sure if there is a cracked solder joint on the console or perhaps I have heat damaged the caps, maybe I should have gotten JLPCB to populate the board. On the Syscon check i'm seeing error codes that are pointing towards the caps.

 

[RIP-Felix]

I have used the Panasonic 470uf 2.5v caps that you have recommended on your BOM along with the MLCC Caps which was all ordered from DigiKey...

Well, digikey should be good caps that all met their rating specification. I know some people are getting them cheap off ali express, which can be the rejected caps that didn't meet the 10% and 20% bins that would be sold to digikey, mouser, etc.

The MLCCs I linked to were just examples that meet the specification I recommend. They were the 1st listing I found that had the correct ratings. You should shop around to find a MLCC that are less expensive. That's if you want to use them. Which I do think is helpful.

and I have ran the Syscon check A0801001, A0801004 A0093004 and A0801002 which points to the caps. Not sure what's causing it to not work, i gave it my best to get it installed properly, but unfortunately I now have a faulty PS3. I previously installed 32x Tantalum Caps which I installed back in 2019 which worked perfectly in this unit until I switched to your mod which has lower ESR and replicates the Tokins better, but I failed to get my PS3 to work with it even with trying to reflow it.

There is a remote possibility the high ESR caps harmed the circuit, but I doubt it.

I will now undo this mod and just install some New Tokin Caps that I ordered and see if that gets it working again.

Tokins are extremely difficult to reflow in place and I suspect the reason SONY didn't replace them is the amount of heat needed to would place the RSX and CELL at risk of warping damage. Would require preheating and careful temperature control to pull off successfully. Also, they're not made anymore and old stock is still old.

I'm not sure if there is a cracked solder joint on the console or perhaps I have heat damaged the caps, maybe I should have gotten JLPCB to populate the board. On the Syscon check i'm seeing error codes that are pointing towards the caps.

Sounds like you may have gotten bum caps or harmed them installing. I would try a new set. Or just solder them directly to prove it to yourself.

I would like to see the voltage ripple and noise if you have an oscilloscope. IDK what equipment you have available.

 

[iVirtualZero]

Well, digikey should be good caps that all met their rating specification. I know some people are getting them cheap off ali express, which can be the rejected caps that didn't meet the 10% and 20% bins that would be sold to digikey, mouser, etc.

The MLCCs I linked to were just examples that meet the specification I recommend. They were the 1st listing I found that had the correct ratings. You should shop around to find a MLCC that are less expensive. That's if you want to use them. Which I do think is helpful.


There is a remote possibility the high ESR caps harmed the circuit, but I doubt it.

Tokins are extremely difficult to reflow in place and I suspect the reason SONY didn't replace them is the amount of heat needed to would place the RSX and CELL at risk of warping damage. Would require preheating and careful temperature control to pull off successfully. Also, they're not made anymore and old stock is still old.

Sounds like you may have gotten bum caps or harmed them installing. I would try a new set. Or just solder them directly to prove it to yourself.

I would like to see the voltage ripple and noise if you have an oscilloscope. IDK what equipment you have available.

The console worked perfectly before I replaced it with your mod. And i'm not sure how I would get bad caps from DigiKey, but I did screw up with soldering on the MLCC's a bunch of times knocking them off alignment and bridging them a bunch of times. I did use a soldering iron at 455 Degrees with a large chisel tip and a Rework Station at 400 for soldering on those caps on multiple occasions as I was struggling to align them. I think the heating may have damaged them. After ordering a cap kit for my PC Engine and recieving Chong X caps, even RetroSix is guilty of supplying people with crappy caps for Gameboys and Game Gears. I will never order outside of sites like Mouser, DigiKey, Console5 etc again. eBay is good for ordering singular parts since the postage always cost less. Ali Express is the worst place to go for caps due to fakes and unknown brands, but I did order 2 40nm RSX's and the Orbis modchips from there. Which I plan on servicing my PS3 for? I'm going back to the Nec Tokins since they're still available, cheap and more heat resistant towards a BGA Station. I will tin low melting point leaded solder on those Tokin Caps, so it can melt solder easily with my rework station. As for this Tantelizer Mod unfortunately, it has not worked for me and I'm not going to start over and repopulate the board. But I would like to get it ordered already populated at a good price. On eBay I see one person selling it, but £15 for just one is expensive along with not knowing where the caps came from. I wish Console5 would sell them, but they don't, so it really leaves me with a service. I don't have an Occiliscope but do have a Multimeter.

 

[truemaster]

sorry but i see scratch on cpu near tokin side from delit could be your issue. tantalizer is just a pcb for easier installation.

 

[iVirtualZero]

sorry but i see scratch on cpu near tokin side from delit could be your issue. tantalizer is just a pcb for easier installation.

I don't recommend Delidding with Blades and Knives. And yes I'm well aware of that. Those are surface level scratches and they're on the ground plain. I delidded it before I did everything else and it worked perfectly without issues, playing on it for many hours playing various different games without coming across a single issue. This was when it had NEC Tokin caps.

 

[truemaster]

good to know that scratch didnt affect anything. then 2 things remain. redo your solder on tantalizer both on capacitors and from tatalizer to board. if that wont work then you should consider what @RIP-Felix said about heat wrap your board and develop bga issues

 

[iVirtualZero]

good to know that scratch didnt affect anything. then 2 things remain. redo your solder on tantalizer both on capacitors and from tatalizer to board. if that wont work then you should consider what @RIP-Felix said about heat wrap your board and develop bga issues

I've tried reflowing and realigning it many times but I think I may have overheated those caps. At this point I would like to get it populated by JLPCB or PCB Way. I do plan on getting this PS3 Frankenmodded. Until then I will just put some NEC Tokins back into this by tinning it with Leaded Solder and new old stock is very cheap and plentiful. And once I have the 40nm RSX in this, I will then try again with the Tantelizers. I'm also not willing to spend 50 plus on some caps at the moment.

 

[thyaguster]

Hi, I bought a used 2004A that does the 3 beeps, turns off and red light stays blinking. Does it on boot mostly, but sporadically when playing.
Still most of the times if I remove the HDD it turns on and stays at the no hdd error...So I would let it sit there for like 30 minutes and then install the hdd again and it would boot.
So upon looking online thought it might be the NEC/TOKINs...
The heating sequence I was doing made me think to try to directly heat the B side tokins...When I do it with an hair-dryer for 5 seconds it always boots, I don't even think I'm heating any components around to be anything other than the nec/tokins.
Also I realized that when I redid the thermal paste and added some rubber feet to the console to raise it (it had none) for heat dissipation it started shutting down way more often. So I removed the feet and configured the fan to be at 20% and start to rise above 70ºc...And it's easier to boot and rarely crashes when playing.

Do you guys think it's a good candidate for this mod?

Also, I have an old fat model dead, I see 8x 330uF on the board, would those work replace 2x nec/tokin on my Slim?

 

[thyaguster]

Maybe I shouldn't kill the fat just yet, I was not finding cheap 470uF with low-ESR for sale....But found these '2R5TPE470M9 470 2.5V 470UF' on Aliexpress, but I'm not sure they share the same specs as the Panasonic ones even though they have the same part number...Anyone used those before?

 

[thyaguster]

I'm not able to edit my posts, so if any mod want's to join them...
I was able to dump the syscon log and I see a bunch of A0801002 errors...So yeah, guess I'm going to try replacing the NEC/TOKINS when they arrive and see how it goes.

 

[Ganjo]

I dont think this has been asked yet but should we still be using 3x 470uF caps when installing a 40nm on a frankenphat? or should we drop it to 330x3? with or without the extra MLCC caps? BC units

 

[Erim]

I've recently got a ps3 cechj with water damage on when I cleaned all of the damage (damage was not that bad and none of the components damaged) and make a syscon diagnosis on it and came out with the codes A0061002 and A0093003 and it was surely a power/nec issue that i've got the right capacitors for, than i just replaced 1 of the nec tokins on the back Rsx side and the system got working again the i updated the system to 4.91 (my bd is dead so it was painful bc it checks and writes on the chips on it during the update process)but i've got a replacement bd for it and made the update and call it a day. But when i woke up and tried the power up the PS3 it stays for almost 15-20 secs (it got into XMB without any problem) but then it again fall into ylod
Now the problem starts here i just ripped off the rx and tx pads on the motherboard so i cannot make syscon diagnosis anymore i dont think that with just 3 hours after repair it can broke the rsx or cell but like i said there is no way i can prove it.

Why my system got ylod'ed again and can i get rid of it with replacing more necs
And for my last question is there a way to get the error codes without the test pads (my console isn't running long me to open a web browser etc.)(I heard about some service ports or smth like that but i dunno where it is or even its eve usable?)
Can you guys help?
(Sorry for my bad english if i made a mistake)

 

[bennieboy777]

Hey guys. I got a very clean CECH-2001A slim yesterday. Ran great, everything worked. About 130d run time. I tore it down, and delidded both chips, repasted everything and put it all back together. Now it doesn't start and I get the following in the error log:

Press Ctrl+C to exit
>$ errlog
00000000
# CODE     CLOCK
# A0403034 2DD0C299
# A0404411 2DD0C298
# A0403034 2DD0C1DC
# A0404411 2DD0C1DB
# A0403034 2DD0C1A9
# A0404411 2DD0C1A9
# A0403034 2DD0C128
# A0404411 2DD0C127
# A0403034 2DD0A896
# A0404411 2DD0A896
# A0403034 2DD09C34
# A0404411 2DD09C33
# A0403034 2DD09854
# A0404411 2DD09853
# A0403034 2DD0984F
# A0404411 2DD0984E
# A0403034 2DD0984A
# A0404411 2DD09849
# A0403034 2DD09844
# A0404411 2DD09844
# A0403034 2DD0983F
# A0404411 2DD0983F
# A0403034 2DD09839
# A0404411 2DD09839
# A0403034 2DD09834
# A0404411 2DD09833
# A0403034 2DD0982F
# A0404411 2DD0982E
# A0403034 2DD0978C
# A0404411 2DD0978C
# A0403034 2DD09782

Press Ctrl+C to exit
>$ bringup
FFFFA605

Press Ctrl+C to exit
>$ bringup
00000000
# [SSM] Clearfatal Start.
# [SSM] Clearfatal ok.
# (PowerOff State)
# [SSM] Bringup Start.
# [SSM] PS0 ok.
# [SSM] PS1 ok.

Press Ctrl+C to exit
>$
F0000003
# [SSM] PS2 ok.
# [PowSeq] Error:9003
# [SSM] PS3 ng.
# [SSM] Cond/Fatal received, msg=24D0.
# [SSM] Fataldown Start.
# [SSM] Fataldown ok.
# (PowerOff State) (Fatal)
NG E00000E0
# [UCMD] Unknown command.

I inspected the board very closely after the delid, and didn't see anything concerning. I have a few pictures of the board after the delid, but I will get closer pictures if you guys think it would help. I honestly just didn't see this coming. The delids went very smooth. I have read under the 3034 error that it can happen because of delidding. I'm not too sure on the 4411 error. More pictures and some more troubleshooting tomorrow. I think I'll try the "pressure test" to see if it's BGA related. Possibly a reflow needed?