PS2 How to burn properly a disc?

Discussion in 'Help & Support' started by Md Hesam, Jul 6, 2019.

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    Agrippa

    Agrippa Forum Noob

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    Bullshit. The cause of no EDC data on early PS1 discs was a mastering error. PS1 discs on the ToC area have got a wobble groove with encoded licence information (mythical SCEA/E/I letters). As the CD-R media has already got the wobble on the whole surface of the disc (to keep synchronization during the burning), there is no way to write this licence string at home. Sony, as the one of the inventors of the CD, knew what they were doing. ;)

    PS2 CD discs have got a similar one, but with an extra layer of protection consisting Disc ID key to decrypt the logo.
     
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    TnA

    TnA Member

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    I don't mean the discs which had disc-read-errors as results of remnants from 'faulty (mastering) equipment', when there were nano-scratches (or possibly even without them), which some of the very first discs are known for.

    I mean that wobble, which cannot be read by most usual drives and which cannot be written to a Standard-CD-R, for various reasons as far as I remember (it's been over a decade).

    Well, in the 2 seconds pre-gap between LeadIn and track, AFAIK.
    A bit like a music-track, lol.

    The infamous SCE(X)-Signal! :)
    I think old modchips spam the controller with it continually and newer (stealth) might only do it for some seconds upon insertion of a disc.

    ?
    I thought it was mainly due to the position of where the wobble is and the ATIP, being present in that position on CD-Rs!
    Thus the PSX is ever receiving either 'ATIP' or zeros or FFs as signal instead of 'SCE(X)' and you can not burn over the ATIP AFAIK (at least not that the information is still readable).
    [I suppose @Berion meant that with 'ATIP-Check'! and to answer my question to that check... now that I realize what he probably meant, the answer to my question is 'implemented in hardware'.]

    Another problem when writing it, would be that a wobble can essentially not be replicated with a normal disc-writer but would need something alike a 3-axis laser or multilaser-set.

    I distinctly remember that effort in the mid-2000. I think it was in 2006.
    I remember specific CD-R's like Kodak Gold 650MB 'Master Discs' (or so...) and they hacked a specific writer's firmware, which had the hardware to pull it off. It might have been one of those 'Yamaha F1' or how their name was or a NEC1100 or 1300 or an LG (HL) Drive... I am not sure which one, because I also read about the ODD Mods for reading XBOX-Discs from a PC, during that time, which I think @Berion mentioned before.

    Likewise they were for the CD-R and the other rainbow-books (and standards related to them) along with some other companies and that continuation of the recordable Laserdisc is from 1982, although only common since ~1996/1997 for end-users as 'CD-Writers' in a PC and since the beginning of the 90's (I think 91 but possibly also earlier), via CD-Recorders and very pricey 'Sound equipment' (HiFi, what have you, with a disc and possibly 'Radio')...

    On another note: Why would anyone record music from radio to a CD-R?


    ...so I think they placed it right were the ATIP is supposed to be on these.
    Sadly you can't 'booktype' them (CD-R's) as well (like you can on DVD+-R), but even then the drive-controller tries to read the wobble from a fixed position, so as long as it won't read elsewhere or as long as there are no ATIP-less CD-R's (highly unlikely, that there are any, because that supposedly would void a standard in the rainbow-books, but I don't know which oneof them from the 'FF'. I mean, I don't have the full standardization-set (rainbow-books) in my mind.) or as long as there is no disc-writer capable of writing a blind-image accurately + even assuming that it's a 3axis-laser-array and if the hardware could write it, it is not possible.

    But... In my example I was simply referring to that project in the mid-2000 and it seems to be possible for CDs (with specific writers and a modified firmware), but not possible for DVDs and MOST Writers (99.9x%) and CD-R's following the rainbow-books (was it the yellow one? Ah no, that was for VCDs or so...).

    That's why i mentioned, that I think it is NOT quite possible or easy to modify a blind-image.
    At least replacement of the logo is stopped by this, even if it were possible to extract the wobble-data and burn it...
    Then we would need to recalculate the encryption-key for the PS2Logo...

    Oh... And it prevents using the wobble-data + extra-keying to the logo, on different games, except for the method of renaming all SLES/SLUS/... to the same name, which would also mess up the 'towers' in the OSDSYS, if I remember correctly (1 giant 'tower' for all these copies, which that kind of change would result in).

    This also means, that theoretically the 'HK-Silver'-pirates would need to get the original glass-master of a game (every game they wanted to copy properly, without editing), to create a proper backup (if they would had chosen to go the route to name-change the slus after receiving only one glass-master, it would not be a proper copy... So... Swap Magic and AR 'came along'.)!


    Datel only did so with Driver 2 or 3, via a glass master and a cut-out. I wonder how they got that glass master to begin with, tho'. Maybe they :bitsbubba: a Sony-Worker or threatened to to so? Lol
    ...i suppose almost all of the weirdo discs from Datel and 'some others' have that Driver2/3-wobble and are creating one giant tower... :hopelessness:


    Btw.: Is it any way feasible, to create a 1:1-copy with a wobble or pseudo-wobble, if a PIC costs 30ct or so? IMO, it is not.
    Is it interesting to talk and thinker about? Indeed!
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
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    Agrippa

    Agrippa Forum Noob

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    You have written: "the ECC-Data (a.k.a. Protection-wobble)". No, the ECC/EDC data is not a "protection-wobble". Some early discs have got no EDC data in some first sectors and it was believed to be the protection indeed. I understood you were referrencing to it in your post.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobble_frequency

    PS1 discs have got a such kind of a wobble in the lead-in area, which consists a modulated SCEx signal.

    The anti-mod measure, found in some games, works by setting the laser somewhere on the data track and triggering the verification (the disc slows up to a 1x speed). Obviously, there are no wobble groove, but the constant stream of SCEASCEESCEI signal from the modchip combined with an undocumented CD controller subcommand which counts the number of SCEx strings received and the result is known. ;)

    That's why nobody bothered to make selfbooting PS2 games. Too expensive and without a guaranteed revenue.

    Who knows? One thing for sure, they had got clever engineers and a shitload of money.
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    Berion

    Berion Developer

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    @TnA Your posts are so long that I need some more time and processing power. ;)

    @sandungas So it looks like it just needs a ODD/ODDW which read PS3 discs, nothing special in them. Also this app needs IRD so it is also nothing special as IRD contain inside disc key, to do decryption. But of course thanks for repo and answer. It is easier to do it via GUI rather than messing in hexes and extracting keys per game or involving PS3 in the process.

    However, this makes me thinking about how PS3 ODD firmware know which files are decrypted and needs to decryption? Reading readme, I saw that author have met the same problem. Every game must be hardcoded because we don't have a way to "goes" exactly which executables are encrypted without scanning headers of all files on disc. So how drive know that? Or Am I wrong?
     
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    Agrippa

    Agrippa Forum Noob

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    The first sector of the disc contains an information about the range of the encrypted sectors. Encryption is done on a sector rather than a file basis.
     

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