PS3 My PS3 ISO games running from an external HDD randomly hang for a second or not even that

[Windows10User]

My PS3 ISO games running from an external HDD randomly hang for a second or not even that and then return to normal. This happens sometimes. I didn't have this problem before when playing the games on the JB format (I converted them to ISO afterwards) and on the internal HDD (now I'm playing them on an external HDD). Also, I think the loading times are taking more time, at least sometimes. I've yet to play PSN and disk games after having this issue but they worked fine before converting the JB games to ISO and when playing them on the internal HDD. I'm on the latest Rebug and multiMAN versions. Most of my PS3 ISOs are split and my drive is formatted as FAT32. Probably this problem has to do with split PS3 ISOs but since I can't do multiple PKG installs via multiMAN on a NTFS drive on multiMAN I'm using a FAT32 partition to do it.

I'm using multiMAN because no matter what I do webMAN MOD and sMAN always freeze my PS3 and I don't know if I can do multiple PKG installs via irisMAN on a NTFS drive and I'm not used to mess with it (irisMAN). At the time I'm using a 1 TB external HDD. What if I buy a 2 TB external HDD and create two partitions on it, one (FAT32) to install the PKG and other (NTFS) to store the PS3 ISOs? The first one could have 10 GB and the other the rest. Assuming this circunvents the multiple PKG install problem on multiMAN, what would I have to do for multiMAN to recognize both partitions, then?

EDIT: Another thing, while playing a game my PS3 froze for some seconds and afterwards restarted without leaving an alert. The PS3 is doing a lot of noise (I don't know how to open it to clean the dust and apply the thermal paste) so maybe it has something to do with that but if so I thought it would leave an alert (or it would make some beep sounds) about the PS3 overheating or so before restarting.

After the PS3 restarted I had an error message seconds after trying to play the mounted game so I had to mount it again to be able to play it and I don't remember when but there was a time the game was very slow including on a cutscene where the sound was out of sync.

 

[sandungas]

De-frag the external hdd

 

[Windows10User]

De-frag the external hdd

I already did that using Windows 10's defrag tool (it says it is 0% fragmented) but how often should I do that, anyway? Before splitting or not a new PS3 ISO to the external HDD, before transferring a JB game to the HDD, when I have this problem, on other occasions?

 

[sandungas]

And have you entered in recovery menu and use the option "restore filesystem" ?

 

[Windows10User]

And have you entered in recovery menu and use the option "restore filesystem" ?

Yes, 5 times (since I've read doing this "multiple" times could fix some problems), as well as the "rebuild database" (5 times also) option, if that helps somehow.

 

[sandungas]

The rebuild database doesnt matters in this case, it only keeps a record of the stuff that needs to be displayed in XMB... the purpose of the database is to display stuff in XMB as faster as posible (without need to scan the hdd contents entirelly everytime the PS3 boots)

But the 2 things i mentioned in my previous posts are critical for the loading times/delays
The golden rule to prevent fragmentation in the external hdd is to never delete files in it, lets say... starting from the beginning...
If you format an hdd... and you start copying files in it you will have zero fragmentation
In the next session (lets say some days later)... you can copy more files in it and again you will have zero fragmentation

The problem happens when you delete a file... the deleted file creates a "gap" (located in between other files) of a specific size... and that sectors of the hdd becomes "available" to store new data in them

So... after that... when you copy new files to the hdd... is posible that some of them are going to be written in the "gap"... so you have most of the game files located in a position, and others located in a different position... and the hdd header needs to "jump" back and forth to read them when you are playing, that "jumps" could cause delays

Also, keep in mind in this example im writing im just telling about a single file... with a single file you will not have problems... actually it cant be said that the hdd is fragmented just because 1 file is splitted... but in the practise this happens with hundreds of files

-----------------
Also, the kind of files you store in the externall hdd are very important.... PS3 JB games are composed by thousands of files
But an hdd with lets say... 40 PS3 ISO games only have 40 files (and his filesystem will be very simple, and there is no much room for fragmentation)

-----------------
For the internal PS3 hdd there is no way to prevent fragmentation.... other than not installing/deleting games and gamedata, lol, but thats not aceptable... we have to live with it
Also, keep in mind while messing around with backups in PS3 firmware we have lot of freezes and crashes of the firmware, and eventually this could damage the internal hdd filesystems... this is why is good to use the "restore filesystem" option from time to time
Personally, i use it every 3 or 5 crashes (just incase the PS3 doesnt forces me to do the filesystem check)

-------------------
There are no other posible reasons for lags in games... except:
-Your external hdd have a bigger problem (you should try with a different one, or a flash stick)
-Your internal hdd have a bigger problem
-Your PS3 is overheating
-You have a serious problem related with CELL or RSX
-You have some process running at background that is "hitting" the performance of the main game process

 

[Coldheart2236]

Most of my PS3 ISOs are splitted, if that matters.

Aside from any issues of the drive being fragmented as sandungas already said, playing split ISO files will definitely take a hit to performance, as you effectively playing a game in fragments. I'd recommend using an NTFS drive or at least an NTFS partition on the external drive to go alongside the FAT32 one.

This is what I do; the few PS3 backups I have that are 4GB or under I put on the FAT32 partition, and some which are maybe 40GB I put on the NTFS partition. This is the best way for performance, since the ISO is a single file stream and will be read as that, excluding any reserved free space on the drive as @sandungas already mentioned.

 

[Windows10User]

The rebuild database doesnt matters in this case, it only keeps a record of the stuff that needs to be displayed in XMB... the purpose of the database is to display stuff in XMB as faster as posible (without need to scan the hdd contents)

But the 2 things i mentioned in my previous posts are critical for the loading times/delays
The golden rule to prevent fragmentation in the external hdd is to never delete files in it, lets say... starting from the beginning...
If you format an hdd... and you start copying files in it you will have zero fragmentation
In the next session (lets say some days later)... you can copy more files in it and again you will have zero fragmentation

The problem happens when you delete a file... the deleted file creates a "gap" (located in between other files) of a specific size... and that sectors of the hdd becomes "available" to store new data in them

So... after that... when you copy new files to the hdd... is posible that some of them are going to be written in the "gap"... so you have most of the game files located in a position, and others located in a different position... and the hdd header needs to "jump" back and forth to read them when you are playing, that "jumps" could cause delays

Also, keep in mind in this example im writing im just telling about a single file... with a single file you will not have problems... actually it cant be said that the hdd is fragmented just because 1 file is split... but in the practise this happens with hundreds of files

-----------------
Also, the kind of files you store in the externall hdd are very important.... PS3 JB games are composed by thousands of files
But an hdd with lets say... 40 PS3 ISO games only have 40 files (and his filesystem will be very simple, and there is no much room for fragmentation)

-----------------
For the internal PS3 hdd there is no way to prevent fragmentation.... other than not installing/deleting games and gamedata, lol, but thats not aceptable... we have to live with it
Also, keep in mind while messing around with backups in PS3 firmware we have lot of freezes and crashes of the firmware, and eventually this could damage the internal hdd filesystems... this is why is good to use the "restore filesystem" option from time to time
Personally, i use it every 3 or 5 crashes (just incase the PS3 doesnt forces me to do the filesystem check)

-------------------
There are no other posible reasons for lags in games... except:
-Your external hdd have a bigger problem (you should try with a different one, or a flash stick)
-Your internal hdd have a bigger problem
-Your PS3 is overheating
-You have a serious problem related with CELL or RSX
-You have some process running at background that is "hitting" the performance of the main game process

Thanks for the explanation.

So it looks like I should never delete any file and folder even if I format the HDD afterwards. Maybe it's caused by the PS3's overheating. So, if I have some ISO games that are split (almost all of mine are) may I have this problem and even after "rebuilding the database" the XMB may remain slow if I have a lot of stuff in it? I suppose Windows 10's defrag tool stating an HDD is 0% fragmented may not mean anything.

EDIT: I know this is off-topic but every time I FTP a PS3 game save to the PS3 do I have to rebuild its database to be able to load it/make it to show up on the XMB?

Aside from any issues of the drive being fragmented as sandungas already said, playing split ISO files will definitely take a hit to performance, as you effectively playing a game in fragments. I'd recommend using an NTFS drive or at least an NTFS partition on the external drive to go alongside the FAT32 one.

This is what I do; the few PS3 backups I have that are 4GB or under I put on the FAT32 partition, and some which are maybe 40GB I put on the NTFS partition. This is the best way for performance, since the ISO is a single file stream and will be read as that, excluding any reserved free space on the drive as @sandungas already mentioned.

I'm not using a NTFS partition because I can't install multiple PKG on multiMAN and I tried other methods and they didn't work. Also, webMAN MOD and sMAN always freeze my PS3 and I don''t know how to do a multiple PKG install on irisMAN (I'm not used to it, either) via external HDD.

I didn't try making two different partitions, though.

When you say that it will definitely take a hit to performance, what do you mean? May the PS3 freeze or restart (like it did) and may the game freeze or stutter?

 

[sandungas]

Overheatings could cause RSX to lag
I dont think splitted ISOs could cause notable delays... theoretically is better to have the ISO in a single file, but in the practise i never did read people reporting problems about it
The lag in main XMB is a very different thing than the lag inside a game
The lag in main XMB uses to be caused by a database with lot of content and lot of "garbage" areas inside the database internal structure
If windows 10 is telling the hdd have 0% fragmentation, then i guess is right... but this doesnt means that the hdd is 100% healthy, it could have other problems that can be seen only by doing a "surface scan" meassuring the delay times needed to access every sector of it

 

[Coldheart2236]

Maybe it's caused by the PS3's overheating. So, if I have some ISO games that are splitted (almost all of mine are) may I have this problem and even after "rebuilding the database" the XMB may remain slow if I have a lot of stuff in it? Also, I suppose Windows 10's defragment tool stating an HDD is 0% fragmented may not mean anything?

You will certainly notice a downturn in performance when playing a game split into parts, as opposed to a single file. Whether this manifests itself as lag, long loading times, or other performance issues there's nothing you can do about that since the console is having to jump backwards and forwards looking for the right part of the split ISO to load, which is very inefficient and your playing experience will definitely be affected.

Edit: To defrag your HDD, you could try Defraggler which I find to be very good and I've used it for many years now.
https://www.ccleaner.com/defraggler

 

[sandungas]

EDIT: I know this is off-topic but everytime I FTP a PS3 game save to the PS3 do I have to rebuild its database to be able to load it/make it to show up on the XMB?

Yes, this is completly normal, it happens because what you see in the XMB is the contents of the database
By copying a savedata to the internal hdd (by unnofficial means, either with a filemanager, ftp or whatever), you are not updating the database

In other words... your savedata is inside the PS3... but the database doesnt contains info about it... so is not visible in XMB
The solution is to enter recovery menu and "rebuild database"... this scans the hdd contents, will find your savedata, the PS3 firmware will think that there was an error related with it, and will add it to the database

 

[Windows10User]

The lag in main XMB is a very different thing than the lag inside a game
The lag in main XMB uses to be caused by a database with lot of content and lot of "garbage" areas inside the database internal structure

I know so there's nothing I can't do about that? If I defrag a 0% fragmented HDD may I have any problem?

 

[sandungas]

I know so there's nothing I can't do about that? And what about transferring PS3 game saves via FTP to the PS3? Do I have to rebuild its database every time I do that to make the PS3 to show up on the XMB or to be able to load it? If I defrag a 0% fragmented HDD may I have any problem?

Can you tell me the size of this file in your PS3 ?
/dev_hdd0/mms/db/metadata_db_hdd
All i can tell you is it cummulates garbage and eventually have some break points, the rebuild database uses to fix the break points, but doesnt deletes the garbage
The ony thing we can do is to delete it, after that there is an .sprx that works as some kind of "database manteinance service" that should generate a new database from scratch (by scanning the whole hdd)
This first version of the database (inmediatly after the first time is created) probably is completly clean... but the most times is updated the most weird it becomes
Is a bit like the registry in a microsoft windows PC, you know, in a fresh install of windows + your apps it runs fast, but after years installing and unisntalling stuff the registry becomes weird and becomes laggy
I never deleted the databases in my PS3 though... but ive heard some people did it

If you transfer a savedata to PS3 by unnofficial means... then is mandatory to enter recovery menu and use the option "rebuild database"

If you try to defrag a hdd with 0% fragmentation, the tool is going to tell you something like "all operations have been completed successfully" instantly
I mean... it will tell you that everything went fine because the tool did nothing

 

[Windows10User]

Can you tell me the size of this file in your PS3 ?
/dev_hdd0/mms/db/metadata_db_hdd
All i can tell you is it cummulates garbage and eventually have some break points, the rebuild database uses to fix the break points, but doesnt deletes the garbage
The ony thing we can do is to delete it, after that there is an .sprx that works as some kind of "database manteinance service" that should generate a new database from scratch (by scanning the whole hdd)
This first version of the database (inmediatly after the first time is created) probably is completly clean... but the most times is updated the most weird it becomes
Is a bit like the registry in a microsoft windows PC, you know, in a fresh install of windows + your apps it runs fast, but after years installing and unisntalling stuff the registry becomes weird and becomes laggy
I never deleted the databases in my PS3 though... but ive heard some people did it

If you transfer a savedata to PS3 by unnofficial means... then is mandatory to enter recovery menu and use the option "rebuild database"

If you try to defrag a hdd with 0% fragmentation, the tool is going to tell you something like "all operations have been completed successfully" instantly
I mean... it will tell you that everything went fine because the tool did nothing

It's 4.75 MB. Should I delete it? What if I connect an USB stick to the PS3 and from the PC FTP the PS3 game save to it? Will I be able to manually copy the PS3 game save to the PS3 afterwards? There are copy-protected PS3 game saves so does that mean this won't work in some games? What about webMAN MOD/sMAN freezing my PS3?

 

[sandungas]

It's 4.75 MB. Should I delete it? What about webMAN MOD/sMAN freezing my PS3?

Well, thats small in comparison with mine and i dont have much stuff installed (but i guess i have lot of garbage), mine is 7.25mb

I never deleted it, and at this point im not sure how is the best procedure to delete it, if i remember right @DeViL303 did it one time as an experiment, maybe he can give some suggestion

What if I connect an USB stick to the PS3 and from the PC FTP the PS3 game save to it? Will I be able to manually copy the PS3 game save to the PS3 afterwards? There are copy-protected PS3 game saves so does that mean this won't work in some games?

You are complicating it, but lets simplify it...
You connect the USB stick to PC, then you copy the savedata to the USB stick, then you connect the USB stick to the PS3
After that you can go to the [XMB] -> [Game] -> [PS3 savedata], click triangle button. And you will see an option for "import savedata from USB"

Thats an official function, the .sprx that deals with the savedata import/export functions makes a call to the "database manteinance service" to update the database with the new content you are importing
Something similar happens when you download a savedata from a PSNplus account

Also, most of what i said in this thread can be applyed to tropies too, you can copy trophy folders to the internal PS3 hdd by unnofficial means, and after that is mandatory to rebuild the database, otherway are not going to be displayed in XMB
But when you synchronize your trophies with the online servers then there is a sprx that advises the database manteinance service about "hey, we are adding a new content to the PS3, so add his info in the database"

 

[Windows10User]

Well, thats small in comparison with mine and i dont have much stuff installed (but i guess i have lot of garbage), mine is 7.25mb

I never deleted it, and at this point im not sure how is the best procedure to delete it, if i remember right @DeViL303 did it one time as an experiment, maybe he can give some suggestion


You are complicating it, but lets simplify it...
You connect the USB stick to PC, then you copy the savedata to the USB stick, then you connect the USB stick to the PS3
After that you can go to the [XMB] -> [Game] -> [PS3 savedata], click triangle button. And you will see an option for "import savedata from USB"

Thats an official function, the .sprx that deals with the savedata import/export functions makes a call to the "database manteinance service" to update the database with the new content you are importing
Something similar happens when you download a savedata from a PSNplus account

Also, most of what i said in this thread can be applyed to tropies too, you can copy trophy folders to the internal PS3 hdd by unnofficial means, and after that is mandatory to rebuild the database, otherway are not going to be displayed in XMB
But when you synchronize your trophies with the online servers then there is a sprx that advises the database manteinance service about "hey, we are adding a new content to the PS3, so add his info in the database"

Yes, but if I FTP the game save to the USB stick it should show up on the XMB, right? Afterwards I can copy it to the PS3. Can I do this for all the games or there are some which are copy-protected? I think my trophies (the ones I got since I installed CFW) aren't being updated. If I swap the PS3's HDD and log in to my PSN account will the trophies I obtained since I installed CFW show up or do I have to copy some folder and rebuild the database after logging in to my PSN account?

 

[sandungas]

Yes, but if I FTP the game save to the USB stick it should show up on the XMB, right? Afterwards I can copy it to the PS3. Can I do this for all the games or there are some which are copy-protected?

I dont really know if it will be displayed automatically, if you do with webman probably not because the USB device contents are already cached and displayed
If you use a program with a filemanager it should be visible when you exit the program because at that point XMB is reloaded, not sure
In the worst scenario posible i guess is just a matter of:
1) copy the savedata to USB by FTP
2) unplug it and plug it again

The savedata format is not so easy, and there are many variations of the kind of things you can do with a savedata, and honestly i prefer to dont enter in this forest so im not going to talk about them in this thread sorry, you will have to try it and see if the PS3 considers that the savedatas you are trying to import are valid

 

[Windows10User]

You will certainly notice a downturn in performance when playing a game split into parts, as opposed to a single file. Whether this manifests itself as lag, long loading times, or other performance issues there's nothing you can do about that since the console is having to jump backwards and forwards looking for the right part of the split ISO to load, which is very inefficient and your playing experience will definitely be affected.

Edit: To defrag your HDD, you could try Defraggler which I find to be very good and I've used it for many years now.
https://www.ccleaner.com/defraggler

Defraggler states the external HDD is 27% fragmented while Windows 10's defrag tool states 0%.

I dont really know if it will be displayed automatically, if you do with webman probably not because the USB device contents are already cached and displayed
If you use a program with a filemanager it should be visible when you exit the program because at that point XMB is reloaded, not sure
In the worst scenario posible i guess is just a matter of:
1) copy the savedata to USB by FTP
2) unplug it and plug it again

The savedata format is not so easy, and there are many variations of the kind of things you can do with a savedata, and honestly i prefer to dont enter in this forest so im not going to talk about them in this thread sorry, you will have to try it and see if the PS3 considers that the savedatas you are trying to import are valid

Regardless of that, are there copy-protected game saves which I won't be able to copy from the USB stick to the PS3? And what about webMAN MOD/sMAN always freezing my PS3?

 

[sandungas]

Defraggler states the external HDD is 27% fragmented while Windows 10's defrag tool states 0%.

 

[Windows10User]

I did. It will take some time.