PS3 My PS3 now sounds like a vacuum cleaner

[Cypher_CG89]

In my experience there is nothing wrong with the default settings of the dynamic fan control at all, I even has this as an indicator if something is wrong with the actual system. Too me it screams overheating and that webMAN is trying to help.

It only happens to me after I re-install webMAN MOD after a FW re-install. All I do is disable the dynamic control and set it to a constant speed. I have only heard of this happening with a few other people. Other than that all 3 of my PS3's were cleaned out and have had the thermal paste replaced about 2 months ago with MX-4, The only thing I didn't do is de-lid the CELL and RSX and replace the paste and stuff underneath.

If you are quick and press SELECT+START right after "webman plugin loaded" message, what temps does it show?

40c on the CELL and 43c on the RSX at boot. Temps were hitting 80 on the CELL and 85 on the RSX on the XMB 10 inutes after booting before I cleaned and replaced the Thermal paste so i did it before any damage was done to either chip.

The default fan speed (I think) is 25% as lowest allowed fan speed and dynamic during max temp of 68c. If your system is in a healthy state this should not make your PS3 ramp up to any loud fan speeds and it shouldn't have any problems staying under 68c (assuming you haven't put it in a tight space w/o ventilation).

A PS3 Slim fan at constant 38% (starts to get pretty loud?) would indicate that something is wrong with the heat dissipation of the system, then again if your temps is under 60c I guess it's just a personal preference.

All my PS3's are on vertical stands. I don't like them horizontal because of the crap vents and crap clearance for them. Its not too loud, but I use a headset when gaming and surround sound system for films and music so I barely notice the noise anymore. I have it set to 42% for PS2 games. My temps rarely hit above 60 no matter what I do now even under heavy load and stress. Quite good for an old PS3. And i have both my Slims set up this way. The SuperSlim i wish i could set up this way but the way the RSX is ventilated on these seems to work better than the other model PS3's and they don't have IHS or full heats sinks like other PS3's.

 

[jacobsson]

@Cypher_CG89

It only happens to me after I re-install webMAN MOD after a FW re-install. All I do is disable the dynamic control and set it to a constant speed. I have only heard of this happening with a few other people

Hmm, I guess you're right in that it could be a software bug then, I actually never heard of this before.

Let's hope this is the case for OP, although my alarm goes off when he says some guy just made a re-paste job.

 

[Cypher_CG89]

@Cypher_CG89

Hmm, I guess you're right in that it could be a software bug then, I actually never heard of this before.

Let's hope this is the case for OP, although my alarm goes off when he says some guy just made a re-paste job.

That's what I think it is for me anyway. In the case of the thread quite few things con be the issue as he has no webman installed. And in my experience the SYSCON fan control only goes bezerk when the temps are very high, 80+ and assuming the crap nature of this fan control we can assume the temps my be a lot higher than this.

I also think it may be the case of the re-paste job and may have used some low grade paste instead of a decent one like MX-4 or the heat sink is not seated correctly on the cell and rsx. Or quite possible as well they used the pea method and didn't use enough paste, and now the paste doesn't fully cover the CELL and RSX and therefore would be gaps big enough between the CELL, RSX and the Heat sink for heat to build up and is not being dissipated properly by the HS. This heat build up in the gaps could kill the CELL and RSX regard less of other issue the console may have had before the job was done and other jobs that have previously been done.

 

[psykosis]

It only happens to me after I re-install webMAN MOD after a FW re-install. All I do is disable the dynamic control and set it to a constant speed. I have only heard of this happening with a few other people. Other than that all 3 of my PS3's were cleaned out and have had the thermal paste replaced about 2 months ago with MX-4, The only thing I didn't do is de-lid the CELL and RSX and replace the paste and stuff underneath.



40c on the CELL and 43c on the RSX at boot. Temps were hitting 80 on the CELL and 85 on the RSX on the XMB 10 inutes after booting before I cleaned and replaced the Thermal paste so i did it before any damage was done to either chip.



All my PS3's are on vertical stands. I don't like them horizontal because of the crap vents and crap clearance for them. Its not too loud, but I use a headset when gaming and surround sound system for films and music so I barely notice the noise anymore. I have it set to 42% for PS2 games. My temps rarely hit above 60 no matter what I do now even under heavy load and stress. Quite good for an old PS3. And i have both my Slims set up this way. The SuperSlim i wish i could set up this way but the way the RSX is ventilated on these seems to work better than the other model PS3's and they don't have IHS or full heats sinks like other PS3's.

Cypher, i used to use MX-4, but it dries up pretty fast and usually needs to be reapplied every 6 months or so in my experience with the ps3 and with graphics cards. I switched to gelid gc extreme with 3 degrees better cooling, and my last paste job is still running strong a year later. Normally people tout AS5, but I honestly prefer the gelid. Was well worth the couple dollars more on ebay

 

[fresh]

There are only two stages after trying to fix a fat:
- all is fine
- temperature probs

When the second happens the only way to fix that is a pro reflow. Trust me, i've broken many fats to learn...

Greets.

 

[Cypher_CG89]

Cypher, i used to use MX-4, but it dries up pretty fast and usually needs to be reapplied every 6 months or so in my experience with the ps3 and with graphics cards. I switched to gelid gc extreme with 3 degrees better cooling, and my last paste job is still running strong a year later. Normally people tout AS5, but I honestly prefer the gelid. Was well worth the couple dollars more on ebay

Not with the amount I used it wont be drying any time soon, I used a bit more then normal and made sure it covered the whole of the CELL and RSX, and as it carbon based it doesn't matter if a bit squeezed out when the clamps and heat sink where put back as it won't do any damage to the board lol. I highly doubt It lasts 8 years without curing as is said on the packaging but its worked quite well for me on other things like PC and Laptop and I have a tendency to overclock them. If it don't last I will change to something else.

I think AS5 is crap even though it comes from the same company lol.

 

[Jackfavvv]

UPDATE:

Just contacted the repair guy today and found out some socking news.
He said that the system was indeed re pasted with thermal paste otherwise my system wouldn't be working from being YLODed.
However, the paste at the bottom of the heat spreader was dry and needed to be addressed. So the only way to get underneath was to remove the heat spreader to get to the chip underneath. BUT doing so will damage the motherboard, he said. Due to the system being old the most I'll be able to out of it is three month!

I can't believe he kept this from me, and it doesn't make any sense either since he also have me 3 month warranty.
He also mentioned that Jailbreaking can also contribution to some overheating aswell and said that 3.55 with E3 Flasher was better.

Guys I really don't know what to think now. No disrespect to the repair guy, but what do you all think about this?





Tomorrow I'll check the heat signature as some of you suggested. I'll let you all know what I'll find...

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

UPDATE:

Just contacted the repair guy today and found out some socking news.
He said that the system was indeed re pasted with thermal paste otherwise my system wouldn't be working from being YLODed.
However, the paste at the bottom of the heat spreader was dry and needed to be addressed. So the only way to get underneath was to remove the heat spreader to get to the chip underneath. BUT doing so will damage the motherboard, he said. Due to the system being old the most I'll be able to out of it is three month!

I can't believe he kept this from me, and it doesn't make any sense either since he also have me 3 month warranty.
He also mentioned that Jailbreaking can also contribution to some overheating aswell and said that 3.55 with E3 Flasher was better.

Guys I really don't know what to think now. No disrespect to the repair guy, but what do you all think about this?





Tomorrow I'll check the heat signature as some of you suggested. I'll let you all know what I'll find...

Once the machine YLOD, reflowing or reballing, usualy doesnt last very long, as the RSX itself its already destroyed. Its only a matter of time till the machine YLODs again,when you least expect it!

If i were you,since its a 20Gb, i would not touch it, or if you want to play it, just dig a grave and declare it dead! "no offense"

The lad whom repaired your console,doesnt know whats he its talking about! CFW leads to overhearing? (insert 2019 joke here)

Regarding my previous quote about YLOD, the cause its not always the RSX,but 99% its the RSX, but sometimes can be an faulty HDD, or either a RSX Capacitor like the NECs, which are easily replacable, but if the issue its a dead chip, then forget it!

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

For reference ill leave here my temps on my CECHC04 60Gb Backwards Compatible PlayStation3.

All the work i do, its my own, because i dont trust anybody for this kind of job,and this its all with years of experience and many broken units.

All the work was done, its dust out, RSX delid, and thermal paste replacement (pea-size method), still running stock fan, and stock PSU, and the machine, has YLOD but its because of the NEC Capacitors on the RSX that needs to be replaced, as all NEC devices do

No holes drilled non of that BS, just all stock with Webman at 33% Fan Speed, and never excedes 50ºC on CELL or the RSX.

This its how a Backwards Compatible should run, if people took care of them back in 2006.

 

[jacobsson]

No holes drilled non of that BS, just all stock with Webman at 33% Fan Speed, and never excedes 50ºC on CELL or the RSX.

Yes this is exactly what I'm talking about, nice! On YouTube you'll only see horrendous mods with hole drilling and plastic cut off from the original chassi etc (don't wanna mention any particular names).

I have done zero cuts or holes drilled to my of my launch units, only delids + liquid metal for the CELL and RSX. I don't have your excellent temps in the 50s but rather in the 60-65s with lowest fan speed at 25%. They never exceed the maximum target of 68c and barely makes noise from the fan, low noise is what I'm aiming for.

 

[jacobsson]

UPDATE:

Just contacted the repair guy today and found out some socking news.
He said that the system was indeed re pasted with thermal paste otherwise my system wouldn't be working from being YLODed.
However, the paste at the bottom of the heat spreader was dry and needed to be addressed. So the only way to get underneath was to remove the heat spreader to get to the chip underneath. BUT doing so will damage the motherboard, he said. Due to the system being old the most I'll be able to out of it is three month!

I can't believe he kept this from me, and it doesn't make any sense either since he also have me 3 month warranty.
He also mentioned that Jailbreaking can also contribution to some overheating aswell and said that 3.55 with E3 Flasher was better.

Guys I really don't know what to think now. No disrespect to the repair guy, but what do you all think about this?





Tomorrow I'll check the heat signature as some of you suggested. I'll let you all know what I'll find...

This guy doesn't seem to wanna do the real work needed, he's basically only using a screw driver and changing thermal paste on consoles, which is fine if stated so. There is no way that would "fix" a YLOD issue though. Regarding CFW, ps3xploit is a much better way of doing it since you won't need to trust that wiggly ass E3 clip to get proper dumps, I have no idea why he would say anything else.

I'd ask for the money back if it's not specified what kind of service your buying (change of thermal paste only). I've delided a couple of systems now and if you're careful you will not damage anything, especially if you have some "proper" tools (I use a heatgun and $5 painter knife set from eBay, works great!).

I do not agree with the "declaring your console dead" -talk though since I've been fixing some units myself from YLOD and they are still going strong after months of heavy duty, but there are no guarantees of course.

If you want the guy to really fix your console, ask him if he could do the following:
1. delid your RSX and CELL and use liquid metal underneath.
2. increase the clamp force of the heatsink

If not, then you should at least consider take it apart, check if the paste is covering the CELL/RSX underneath (no need to repaste if it does) and increase the clamp force (bending the ears back a little bit where the screw goes), would not take more than an hour if you're going slow.

 

[Cypher_CG89]

$5 painter knife set from eBay, works great!).

Another one that likes to take knifes to there consoles @Naked_Snake1995 you got a partner in crime for the PS3 murder and assassination business

 

[jacobsson]

Another one that likes to take knifes to there consoles @Naked_Snake1995 you got a partner in crime for the PS3 murder and assassination business

Yeah, obviously you wont be "cutting" more than glue with a painters knife

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

Another one that likes to take knifes to there consoles @Naked_Snake1995 you got a partner in crime for the PS3 murder and assassination business

Nah, for my PS3 murders, i work alone

 

[sandungas]

increase the clamp force of the heatsink

There is a detail related with this that usually is not mentioned, im going to try to explain it in my broken english just for curiosity sake

By increasing pressure on the clamps we are taking a risk in "squeezing" the BGA solder balls under CELL/RSX
But the PS3 have meassures to prevent that

If you look with attention at the 4 corners of CELL/RSX you are going to notice there are 4 small "SMD like" components in the corners that are not doing any electrical function (are dummies)
The purpose of this 4 components in the corners is to work as "pillars" to mantain the separation in between CELL/RSX and the motherboard ALWAYS at the same distance

In other words... that "pillars" at the corners of CELL/RSX are the ones that are going to hold the additional pressure we are adding when bending the clamps (together with the BGA solder balls). If the temperature is very high the BGA solder balls could become "semi-solid", but the pillars are solid at all times

-----------
All this has a limit of course... adding lot of pressure in the clamps could cause a bending in the CELL/RSX (where the center will move "down" and the corners "up" because the pillars)

 

[jacobsson]

@sandungas
Thanks for this information, very interesting!

Are you suggestion increasing the clamp force (even just a little bit, as I've done) wouldn't have any impact on the heat dissipation from the chips to the heatsink?

To me it seems like the heat spreaders aren't exactly a tight fit to the chips due the glue under the edges and lack of thermal paste in the inside. I might be wrong since I've only done a couple of systems.

 

[sandungas]

@sandungas
Thanks for this information, very interesting!

Are you suggestion increasing the clamp force (even just a little bit, as I've done) wouldn't have any impact on the heat dissipation from the chips to the heatsink?

Increasing the clamp force have a positive impact in heat dissipation, i even did it in my CECH-25xx that is not a PS3 model prone to overheating

The reason why i did it is long to explain though... is needed to consider other factor not so obvious
I made a lapping of the heatsink metal block surfaces because from factory that surfaces of the heatsink was pure crap, it had lot of "scratches" because the way how was manufactured/mechanized, if you scratch it with your finger nail are very notables... and i think if you look at them with a microscope this is going to be like the alps mountains, lol
This is why i made the lapping of the heatsink, not sure if this happens in heatsink of other PS3 models but i can tell in my CECH-25xx this was very bad made

After that i was making lot of tests (where i wasted a few thermal paste for science) to check how well the heatsink metal block was "seating" on top of the IHS
Technically... both surfaces should be perfectly plane to make a perfect contact in between them, but the reallity s the IHSs are not plane

Anyway... the weird thing i realized when doing all this tests is (for some reason i cant imagine well) the heatsink metal block is not seated on top of IHS with the same strenght you feel when you are screwing the big bolts
You know... when you are screwing the bolts you have the feeling that are very strong... but this strenght is not applyed directly to the IHS surfaces
Lets say... if you "feel" 100% strenght in your hand when screwing the bolts.... the strenght applyed to the IHS is 80%
Is hard to explain, i have some theories that (pretends to) explain why this happens but are even harder to explain, better take a read at this thread when i was talking about the "mountains" forms in the thermal paste
http://www.psx-place.com/threads/cpu-overheating-problem.18520/#post-127218

So long story short... in PS3 is good to apply a good amount of thermal paste (better more than less), and adding more pressure helps to get a better contact of the surfaces

 

[sandungas]

Im going to explain another detail just for curiosity sake, i realized about this some weeks ago and never posted in public but is very interesting

I have a micrometer that can meassure with a precission of 0.05mm
And i imagined how to meassure the distance in between CELL IHS ...and... CELL fiberglass surface
You know... that distance is what you need to "cut", and is a cord of silicone

What i did was to use a plastic sheet like a "saw" to "cut" the silicone in one of the corners of the CELL by moving the plastic sheet left and right lot of times
I used different plastic sheets of different thickness to see which ones was able to "fit" in the gap

My results...
The gap in between IHS and fiberglass surface is 1.2mm ... this means the "tool" you use to "cut" the silicone should not be bigger than this thickness, that "painting palettes" are good because have the edges rounded and are made of metal so are strong, but if you are going to buy one you should ask about the thickness, and remember... 1.2mm max

I was able to cut a couple of centimeters in the CELL corners by using plastic sheets of 1.3mm (yeah it works), but it took me lot of time to cut that couple of centimeters, and i had to replace the plastic sheet multiple times... because i was cutting it with different shapes, and also because the plastic sheets was "bending" (and after bended you need a new one)

Im sure it can be cutted with a plastic sheet of 1.2mm ... but it needs to be a very hard plastic material (his chemical composition)
I cant imagine where to find this kind of plastic sheets... the ones with 1.3mm i used was taken from the case of a supermarket product (so most probably his chemical composition was not the ideal for this work)
To help you to get an idea of which plastic sheets im talking about, i mean something like this

Edit:
More weird experiments...
That day i tryed to use waxed dental floss... and you are going to crucifix me to say this but... it works

It helped me in removing a few of the silicone (im completly sure because the line was changing his color to grey because it was removing the silicone)
The problem is it needs lot of work (i hurted my hands and fingers for insisting in using it because was working... slow but working)
Also, the waxed dental floss i had at home was 1.3mm thickness or so (i meassured it with the micrometer for comparison purposes)
The point is... this should have worked much better with a thinner "line" (the thinner the better) and very strong, and not waxed

 

[Cypher_CG89]

Im going to explain another detail just for curiosity sake, i realized about this some weeks ago and never posted in public but is very interesting

I have a micrometer that can meassure with a precission of 0.05mm
And i imagined how to meassure the distance in between CELL IHS ...and... CELL fiberglass surface
You know... that distance is what you need to "cut", and is a cord of silicone

What i did was to use a plastic sheet like a "saw" to "cut" the silicone in one of the corners of the CELL by moving the plastic sheet left and right lot of times
I used different plastic sheets of different thickness to see which ones was able to "fit" in the gap

My results...
The gap in between IHS and fiberglass surface is 1.2mm ... this means the "tool" you use to "cut" the silicone should not be bigger than this thickness, that "painting palettes" are good because have the edges rounded and are made of metal so are strong, but if you are going to buy one you should ask about the thickness, and remember... 1.2mm max

I was able to cut a couple of centimeters in the CELL corners by using plastic sheets of 1.3mm (yeah it works), but it took me lot of time to cut that couple of centimeters, and i had to replace the plastic sheet multiple times... because i was cutting it with different shapes, and also because the plastic sheets was "bending" (and after bended you need a new one)

Im sure it can be cutted with a plastic sheet of 1.2mm ... but it needs to be a very hard plastic material (his chemical composition)
I cant imagine where to find this kind of plastic sheets... the ones with 1.3mm i used was taken from the case of a supermarket product (so most probably his chemical composition was not the ideal for this work)
To help you to get an idea of which plastic sheets im talking about, i mean something like this

Edit:
More weird experiments...
That day i tryed to use waxed dental floss... and you are going to crucifix me to say this but... it works

It helped me in removing a few of the silicone (im completly sure because the line was changing his color to grey because it was removing the silicone)
The problem is it needs lot of work (i hurted my hands and fingers for insisting in using it because was working... slow but working)
Also, the waxed dental floss i had at home was 1.3mm thickness or so (i meassured it with the micrometer for comparison purposes)
The point is... this should have worked much better with a thinner "line" (the thinner the better) and very strong, and not waxed

Interesting stuff, the reason the clear plastic (which is clear A-PET) bends so easily is that it is not meant to with stand heat as it is for storage. If you use something like black C-PET (the stuff for microwave meals) it should be more sturdy as it is super heat treated before going through a "thermoforming" machine to shape it.

I know my plastics lol, in a previous job I used to run 7 TFT Machines making this stuff as a material handler, setting the machines, putting huge 1 ton rolls of plastic on the back and other things. Its back breaking work in 30-40*c heat eveyday, worse in summer, you literaly melt on the factory floor lol. If you google TFT thermoforming or TFT vacuum form machines you will see what beasts of machines make this stuff.

These are the beasts that make this stuff. And I used to run 7 of them out of 13. These can chew through a 1 ton roll in less than 1hour and can spit out over 40 boxes and hour of finished product. These can also be used to make PS3 console cases. windows, all sorts of plastic products. A little of topic but extra info on how the ps3 might be made, they my also use injection moulding.

 

[sandungas]

Thanks a lot of mentioning the plastic materials, this is what i needed to know from someone experienced in it
I could deduce the chemical composition of the plastic sheet is very important, but i had no idea about his composition and how to try to find other alternative plastic sheets from other stuff

So the winner repice is it needs to be max 1.2mm thickness and a strong plastic such C-PET, good to know

Btw, something i did not mention is while i was trying to insert the plastic sheet of A-PET of 1.3mm thichness under IHS.... i was able to insert a bit but with a lot of insistence moving it left and right
What it was happening is the plastic sheet changes his thickness a bit... enought to enter in the 1.2mm "gap"
But this is not enoght because doesnt enters completly to cut the silicone cord
So im completly sure, the gap is 1.2mm max (so max thickness of the tool needs to be 1.2mm (but better 1.1mm... or even better 1.0mm)
If you use a plastic sheet of 1.3mm (or even 1.4mm) you are going to be able to remove some silicone but is because the plastic sheet is being "deformed" at the edge you are using to cut

------------
Now the offtopic, you are going to find it interesting
I was looking at the plastic marks in the PS3 case and the case of the PS3 PSU, and the plastic cover of the heatsink, the PS3 slims are made with this:
BAYER BAYBLEND KU2-1514>PC+ABS-FR(40)< http://plastics.bayer.com/plastics/emea/en/product/bayblend/Product_description.html
SABIC CYCOLOY CH6410>PC+SAN-FR(40)< http://www.sabic-ip.com/gep/Plastics/en/ProductsAndServices/ProductLine/cycoloy.html

And yeah, im sure are "molded by injection" in huge machines like that, i guess is used a "mold" of alluminium with lot of details, just by looking at the "rought" top surface of the PS3 slim case with a magnifyer glass it can be seen it has lot of precission