PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD
- Thread starter Naked_Snake1995
- Start date
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
DisplacedGamers
Forum Noob
Bob has a weekly "roundup" show where he talks about the various happenings in the console community in the area of electronics, video output, audio mods, HDMI enhancements, etc. I don't know if he plans on mentioning it in tomorrow's (10/2) episode or not, but I imagine more people will join the fray if he does.
I imagine several of the other hobbyists will reopen the PS3 can of worms and start to provide more feedback and results from their work. Ultimately, I could see a possible PCB produced with the replacement capacitors pre-soldered on top and appropriate cutouts on the board that would allow users to remove the old NEC/Tokin caps and just drop-solder the board to the strips rather than worry about staggering four caps per proadlizer spot.
Once again - I really appreciate the work you guys have done to help awaken the community to what could theoretically be a significant point of failure with the PS3. Thanks for taking the time to define the situation in that initial post, Naked_Snake1995. Hopefully that video I made gets more people interested in the work that has been done.
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
There is nothing wrong to excede the Factory Value, in fact for the Phats you need more than 1200uF, for each NEC/TOKIN, in fact your PS3 thanks you, i have 4x 470uF for each NEC/TOKIN,making a total of 1880uF per-NEC,never had instabilities or shutdown afterwards, the most important thing is not to go below the original NEC/TOKIN Spec of 1200uF, going lower that value,can give you a YLOD again,as one of the Chips are not being feed properly,but thats up to you which value you want to use,if its 330 or 470uF.
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
Thank you for your attention, i really hope, this turns the tables in the PS3 Repair scene, if more people are willing to give it a try, personally, as ive mentioned a number of times, the purpose of this is not to make money,but simply educate and passing the word, i didnt started all of this, so i must thank the lads from Brazil,who did this before me or any of us, this simply wasnt heard to the western audiences, so i guess ill be glad if more people are willing to listen and try,before concluding that the older PS3s are simply unrepairable, or they´ll pour money into more "expensive" solutions,which might not be the fix for that problem at all.
Of course,this thread will get flamed every now and then, ill be hated and be the center of all the drama, that is expected ,but i am not to bothered by it, as long as people are trying and reporting positive results, it makes my time spent in making this thread worth it
Filipe Santos
Member
Naked_Snake1995 said: ↑
Hooooo boyyyy, we are making the headlines lads.
https://www.retrorgb.com/mythbusting-the-ps3s-ylod.html
Guess all thoes Tantalums were worth it after all#TokinMafia #500thPosts
seems like you're on CNN
yep.
couldn't care less about the drama.
Augusto
Member
eBay international shipping is a steal.
@Naked_Snake1995
"That what i wanted to point out, although technically you can remove all of them completely, if you don't bridge them in the correct order, the PlayStation3 will not turn on, for that ive came out with a new method, a combination of NECs and Tantalums."
you are right
"There is nothing wrong to excede the Factory Value, in fact for the Phats you need more than 1200uF, for each NEC/TOKIN, in fact your PS3 thanks you, i have 4x 470uF for each NEC/TOKIN,making a total of 1880uF per-NEC,never had instabilities or shutdown afterwards, the most important thing is not to go below the original NEC/TOKIN Spec of 1200uF, going lower that value,can give you a YLOD again,as one of the Chips are not being feed properly,but thats up to you which value you want to use,if its 330 or 470uF."
I had done test by adding 1 x 470 uf in an NEC TOKIN in Cell. Not had removed the NEC TOKIN. I added together.
PS3 had started normal, but the temperature in Cell increased very much ( 73 C XMB ) just returned to the default ( 65 C in XMB ) after i removed the tantalum.
Even thus adding tantalum together with NEC TOKIN not had fixed the RLOD.
"Sure thing, mostly YouTube videos, hope you understand Portuguese.
Ill compile them and post here a few i saw"
I've watching almost everyone those brazilian portuguese youtube videos and I can say few videos are correct and others are a mess where it was fixed by luck that even video creator can't explain why it was fixed.
Most videos are messy ... they just test starting XMB without using games (UC3, GT6, TLOU etc) and say that was "fixed".
Funny detail that some videos were removed NEC TOKIN in one attempt ... it took me a long time to remove all NEC TOKIN.
I'm from Brazil.
In 6:37 he had used 3 tantalums
In 5:26 he had used 3 tantalums
11:53 was used 2 NEC TOKIN in top side RSX.
13:50 4 X 470 uf and 2 X 330 uf in bottom RSX.
He say that is a CECH 2000 serie.
He says in each NEC TOKIN are internally two capacitors and it is necessary to do an jumper bridge and was used just 2 x tantalum for each NEC TOKIN.
Other videos show the same result.
removing NEC TOKIN using brute force
PS3 manufactured before "slim" ( never was exactly slim .. slim even was the last model ) year 2009 use NEC TOKIN in Cell and RSX.
After the first game ( UC2 ) that used more than half of Cell it started PS3 problems shutting down to the point of not turning on.
Before that RSX was fully used in several games.
That problem was fixed in CECH-2000 using 470 uf tantalum in Cell.
See the image
https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/images/f/fc/DYN-001-fuses-thermistors.front.jpg
Cell top side use 4 X tantalum 470uf and some SMD capacitors and bottom side 3X tantalum 470 uf.
Total 3290 uf for Cell. Cell has been decreased to 45 nm, but is extremely less than 4800 uf Cell 65 nm.
It's hard to see if it's being used an jumper bridge.
today arrives the tantalums and I will post result here.
Have a nice day.
@Naked_Snake1995
"That what i wanted to point out, although technically you can remove all of them completely, if you don't bridge them in the correct order, the PlayStation3 will not turn on, for that ive came out with a new method, a combination of NECs and Tantalums."
you are right
"There is nothing wrong to excede the Factory Value, in fact for the Phats you need more than 1200uF, for each NEC/TOKIN, in fact your PS3 thanks you, i have 4x 470uF for each NEC/TOKIN,making a total of 1880uF per-NEC,never had instabilities or shutdown afterwards, the most important thing is not to go below the original NEC/TOKIN Spec of 1200uF, going lower that value,can give you a YLOD again,as one of the Chips are not being feed properly,but thats up to you which value you want to use,if its 330 or 470uF."
I had done test by adding 1 x 470 uf in an NEC TOKIN in Cell. Not had removed the NEC TOKIN. I added together.
PS3 had started normal, but the temperature in Cell increased very much ( 73 C XMB ) just returned to the default ( 65 C in XMB ) after i removed the tantalum.
Even thus adding tantalum together with NEC TOKIN not had fixed the RLOD.
"Sure thing, mostly YouTube videos, hope you understand Portuguese.
Ill compile them and post here a few i saw"
I've watching almost everyone those brazilian portuguese youtube videos and I can say few videos are correct and others are a mess where it was fixed by luck that even video creator can't explain why it was fixed.
Most videos are messy ... they just test starting XMB without using games (UC3, GT6, TLOU etc) and say that was "fixed".
Funny detail that some videos were removed NEC TOKIN in one attempt ... it took me a long time to remove all NEC TOKIN.
I'm from Brazil.
13:50 4 X 470 uf and 2 X 330 uf in bottom RSX.
He says in each NEC TOKIN are internally two capacitors and it is necessary to do an jumper bridge and was used just 2 x tantalum for each NEC TOKIN.
Other videos show the same result.
PS3 manufactured before "slim" ( never was exactly slim .. slim even was the last model ) year 2009 use NEC TOKIN in Cell and RSX.
After the first game ( UC2 ) that used more than half of Cell it started PS3 problems shutting down to the point of not turning on.
Before that RSX was fully used in several games.
That problem was fixed in CECH-2000 using 470 uf tantalum in Cell.
See the image
https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/images/f/fc/DYN-001-fuses-thermistors.front.jpg
Cell top side use 4 X tantalum 470uf and some SMD capacitors and bottom side 3X tantalum 470 uf.
Total 3290 uf for Cell. Cell has been decreased to 45 nm, but is extremely less than 4800 uf Cell 65 nm.
It's hard to see if it's being used an jumper bridge.
today arrives the tantalums and I will post result here.
Have a nice day.
DoublesAdvocate
Member
@DisplacedGamers Good video, I appreciate that you didn't decide to just say "don't use X method, instead use Y method". One note for people who might not know, the 360 does actually have quite complex error codes you can check when it gets the RROD. Sadly we don't have anything to get info as detailed as this from the PS3 yet.
https://x-ex.com/errorcodes.php
https://x-ex.com/errorcodes.php
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
Pardon me if there is a complicated language barrier,perhaps ive read your post a bit wrong, but in short, i see you are trying to solder them in Parallel, that will work too,but be warned, adding just one Tantalum per NEC in Parallel will solve nothing, you´ll either add 4 or 3 of them in Parallel, just one wont do much good, the NEC is probably under 1200uF, so adding a Tantalum in Parallel you are sort of helping to remedy the issue, but the problem is, its not part of the circuitry as replacing the NECs with Tantalums.
About the CELL being at 73ºCs when you attached the Tantalum,and at 65ºCs when removed, perhaps you didnt put the CPU Bracket tightly, ive replaced mine with proper Tantalums, didnt solder them in Parallel, and the Temperatures are pretty much the same as when the console had NECs, thats around 63ºCs for the CELL while launching a PS3/PS2/PS1 Title,and lower while in XMB.
You have a point there about the YouTube videos, although they show the procedure, they dont quite mention how they did it,or even if it needs to be soldered the right order, which if this guide was non-existent, it would left many users confused, even i was confused at first,but i had to do all the tests myself beforehand,so i had to make sure no detail was left missing, and like @wrx884 mentioned and very well, if that thing doesnt hold with the GT6 or even TLoUs, its not fixed, so you both have a point " @wrx884 by the way mate, this where the exact same videos i was going to share,so thank him for doing the job for me".
I mentioned this in the guide, that the CECH-2000 is the ONLY Slim based machine with NECs on the RSX, afterwards on the 2100 Series, $ony remedied this issue by re-designing the motherboard feeding circuitry, thus accomodating the Tantalums,just like on the CELL, and the problem on the NECs side, has more to do with the RSX not the CELL,but replacing both is a must,but RSX NECs dies quicker than the CELL one, this is due to the Power Demands on the RSX itself, CELL is fairly efficient on his own,but what people need to focus are the Top ones, since they are passively cooled by the EMI Sheild, the bottom ones are actively cooled by the Fan along with the CPU/GPU,so they die at a much slower rate,but again, its hard to determine with NECs has the full 1200uF and which are below the spec, without pealing them off the board, and not everyone has a rework station, thoes things are hard to take off,so the best approach is just to replace them all together.
wrx884
Member
cheers mate i'll have a look through, mine arrived today, they are much smaller than what people have been using but i cant see that being much of an issue (if anyone disagrees please speak up?), but it looks like i wont need to do anything in the way of making sure they dont short on anything as they are same height as the Tokins and small enough length to fit on the Tokins PCB Pads perfectly. Hopefully i get a chance to jump into these over the weekend, if not before.
DoublesAdvocate
Member
Might be a bit fiddly to get them oriented correctly but it seems like a good option, good luck.
armorsnake
Member
Guys, where i made a mistake? CECHL04, shutdown after game is lanuched. In XMB it was perfect normall. After "tantalum mod" its YLOD immediately.
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
Your first mistake was to solder them improperly, you have Tantalums in one side, but not on the other, this is why i strongly advise to solder them the way the guide shows.Guys, where i made a mistake? CECHL04, shutdown after game is lanuched. In XMB it was perfect normall. After "tantalum mod" its YLOD immediately.
If you want to solder them pretty and organised, scratch the PCB Negative Trace Varnish, so you can ground the Negative Tantalum Points.
Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
sorry guys been reading over this and interested in doing this mod to repair my PS3, but I have a question and it may seem silly, but I'm going to ask,
is there any reason why I can not use a 4700uf or a few 470uf Electrolytic RB Capacitor and not a Tantalum Capacitor a side from a size issue.
is there any reason why I can not use a 4700uf or a few 470uf Electrolytic RB Capacitor and not a Tantalum Capacitor a side from a size issue.
wrx884
Member
If looking at these to me they seem all connected fine so might be a solder issue or something thats not related to the caps. looks like all positives are connected and same with the grounds.
My point is each 2 tokins are soldered in paralell (this is obvious by looking at the photos)... but the VIAS in the V_IN and V_OUT sides are connected with another 2 tokins at the other side of the board
So electrically, the circuit is like this:
My point is each 2 tokins are soldered in paralell (this is obvious by looking at the photos)... but the VIAS in the V_IN and V_OUT sides are connected with another 2 tokins at the other side of the board
So electrically, the circuit is like this:
Well, I kind of can't believe it but I got one of my YLOD CECHC02 to at least boot by replacing the 4 NEC/Tokins on the bottom side of the board.
I was given 2 of them for free and this one is in worse shape so I used it for testing.
Replaced each NEC/TOKIN with 4 x 2.5v 330uf tantalums. I have enough to do the other side of the board if need be.
Now I need to pull it apart, clean it properly, replace the thermal paste and do some tests.
I was given 2 of them for free and this one is in worse shape so I used it for testing.
Replaced each NEC/TOKIN with 4 x 2.5v 330uf tantalums. I have enough to do the other side of the board if need be.
Now I need to pull it apart, clean it properly, replace the thermal paste and do some tests.
Naked_Snake1995
Senior Member
Nice one mate, give thoes NECs a Drive-By [emoji23][emoji108]
Good Job [emoji106]
Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
nCadeRegal
Senior Member
. Naw it only works again because you "jostled" the rsx a few microns because of bad bga solder connections....... just kidding man. Clearly it works again from replacing those damn nec tokins! Nice job. I have a CECH a01 that YLOD on me awhile ago. I reflowed it with a heat gun and brought her back to life and just don't really use it anymore. I bought this console on launch day for 600+ and it holds sentimental value to me. I have another a01 that is pristine and barely used so that means when I can find some time this winter I'm gonna have a run at this repair.
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