PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[LSL]

Hello everybody!

Its my first post! Im brazilian (sorry my bad english ) and I've a small console collection. The PS3 fat (4 USB) is the most beauty model, mainly CECHB model(my opinion).

I've 9 PS3 (4 USB): 5x CECHA, 2x CECHB, 2x CECHE. 8 defective units.

I saw about tantalum capacitor solution about June 2019 in brazilian sites. I bought 50 units (330uf x 2.5v) on AliEXpress in August 2019, but only now (February 2020) that I used in some units.

Before remove the Nec Tokins I analyze the various voltages on board. If OK I analyze the IC6201(RSX) and IC6103(CELL/BE), both IC's are a NCP5318. The pin 7 its a indicator of power failure. If a PS3 has a short YLOD its probably that pin 7 is in low level.

My first PS3 with capacitor changed was a CECHA01, it had a 2.5 sec YLOD, all important voltages are OK, I added 2 tantalums on NEC TOKIN (RSX), PS3 still in YLOD. So I changed 2 NEC TOKIN (RSX) with 8 tantalums capacitors (330uf), still in YLOD, I changed 2 NEC TOKIN (CELL) wit 8 tantalums capacitors, also. After 16 tamtaluns this PS3 come back and work without problems. I still not tested with GT6 or The Last of US because the OFW is in 3.41.

The second PS3 (CECHB) had a short YLOD, I analyzed all the voltages and 1.7V_MISC was down after F6303. I changed C6355(was in short circuit) and F6303. After changes the PS3 still in YLOD, sometimes short, sometimes long (3.5 sec), all voltages are OK. I decided added 2 tantalums on RSX capacitors and no success, still in long YLOD, I remove 1 NEC TOKIN (RSX), still in long YLOD, remove the second NEC TOKIN (RSX) and the PS3 goes to short YLOD.

Just for curiosity sake, in one of the tests @squeept removed half of the tokins from a motherboard that was working normally, and the motherboard continued working normally after the removal (but displaying lot of innaccuracies in the osciloscope meassurements)

For testing purposes I soldered 2 tantalums and the CECHB turned on and still working, the RSX line have 2 NEC TOKIN and 2 tantalums, sometimes it have a YLOD. I will solder more tantalums on RSX line. I bought this CECHB01 3 years ago, it was sealed, the NEC TOKINS appear in good situation (I will upload photos).

I don't remember if was the first(CECHA01) or the second(CECHB01) PS3 where IC6201 pin 7 was down and I used a power suplly adjustable to simulate 3.2v (power good) and the PS3 had a YLOD after more than 3.5 secs, the CELL gets hot and the RSX gets warm.

Now I'm analyzing the third PS3(CECHE11). It have a short YLOD, all voltages are OK but IC6201 pin 7 is down. I tested simulating a 3.2v voltage(pin 7) and still with short YLOD, CELL gets warm and RSX still cold. I'm in doubt if change NEC TOKIN for tantalums will be a solution for this case.

I use a scope to analyze voltages and waveform.

I use an power suplly adjustable to test voltage lines in down or to discover short components

 

[Dariush Aghaee]

Is it possible to get YLOD (because of NEC TOKIn failures ) on a CECHE console that has been delided and works fine under 68•c ?

 

[Naked_Snake1995]

Is it possible to get YLOD (because of NEC TOKIn failures ) on a CECHE console that has been delided and works fine under 68•c ?

Yes, deliding doesn't guarantee NEC free failure, in fact originally my C04 had YLOD with the original NEC on-board, the console would fail to start out cold, only at the 15th try on average it would boot, but it wouldn't hold long after YLODing again, this was after the thread was written and published, the console was bought as a testing ground,now is my main 60Gb for daily use, still working as we speak, approaching the 9th month, so the only thing i do to it its just a general cleaning and paste replacement, nothing else.

What i see on consoles with YLOD are mostly dust, these consoles are rammed with dust inside, creating sort of greenhouse effect, which with the heat nowhere to escape, degrades the NECs themselves, this is not only for the PlayStation3, but for every NEC made device, dust and poor ventilation seems to be mostly the cause for accelerated failure, the original consoles that works until nowadays are mostly well kept and dust free, this is why they are still running like a charm, but for used consoles, having a dust rammed original PS3 is asking for a premature console death wish, you never know when is going to fail, until it fails.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

 

[LSL]

I once changed a bad 37v 470uF cap with a 1200uF one --> the LCD won't display anything lol. A 50v 470uF solved it though. Another board I changed a 200-ish uF one with my 470uF and the display has some very slight snow in it but kept it that way anyway.

Is what happens to me when I test adding 1 or 2 or more tantalum capacitors without removing any NEC TOKIN.

In the 2 successful cases I had to remove at least 2 NEC TOKIN and include the tantalum capacitors.

 

[128x.k]

Ok! So I replaced just the top capacitors like in picture 1.

Then I got YLOD even faster than before, the immediate one.I thought maybe because when I took the remaining necs off, I saw a bit of flux in the necs that must of gone through the bottom of the holes. (picture 2)

So I replaced all capacitors and bridged the top with some thick wire (picture 3) now i have about 1-2 second ylod. I would like to try again any suggestions? Maybe bridge the bottom too? or maybe I need 1 more capacitor on the opposite sides on each area? Let me know what you guys think. I Did not bridge the bottom chips (picture 4) Please let me know!

Just a bit of history
1.installed cfw
2. ran for a year no problem
3. Ylod 2-3 second
4.heat up necs
5. worked for 2 months
6.Ylod 2-3 seconds
7. Replaced top capacitors
8.Ylod immediately
9.replaced all capacitors bridged top
10. Ylod 1 second

 

[LSL]

Ok! So I replaced just the top capacitors like in picture 1.

Then I got YLOD even faster than before, the immediate one.I thought maybe because when I took the remaining necs off, I saw a bit of flux in the necs that must of gone through the bottom of the holes. (picture 2)

So I replaced all capacitors and bridged the top with some thick wire (picture 3) now i have about 1-2 second ylod. I would like to try again any suggestions? Maybe bridge the bottom too? or maybe I need 1 more capacitor on the opposite sides on each area? Let me know what you guys think. I Did not bridge the bottom chips (picture 4) Please let me know!

1 second YLOD means that there is no voltage, check if there is voltage on the CELL and RSX.

Yesterday, I analyzed the fourth PS3 (CECHA00), it had 1 second YLOD, I added 2 tantalum caps and got 3 seconds of YLOD.

I removed all NEC TOKIN on top, put 8 tantalum caps on each side and I got 1sec YLOD too. I will try to test adding more tantalum caps

 

[ElGris]

Do you have a multimeter with capacitance reader? If so, check the status of every tantalum you're using. Also, use only a wire per side, in every processor. A delayed YLOD is what we all want, and an instant YLOD means something is shorting, and that's no bueno.

Remove every tantalum and check every one of them, and better, use new ones of the next try. And add 4 per NEC. With only 3 the per NEC the console should boot, but something is wrong either with the capacitors or the soldering. Also, check the entire board for something broken.

 

[128x.k]

@ElGris Hey! Thank you so much for the help!

Ok I purchased this multimeter (picture 1)

I will look up on youtube how to test capacitance. I will also check board but i was veryy carful and am sure i didnt knock anything.

I will re solder after checking all capacitors and only use 1 wire per side!

Question tho If I bridge with one wire for each rsx and cell capacitor section on top of board, do I have to do bottom of board as well? let me know!

Also @LSL I see you quoted me but cant see if you wrote anything.

Thank you so much!!

 

[Edwired]

Hello everybody!

Its my first post! Im brazilian (sorry my bad english ) and I've a small console collection. The PS3 fat (4 USB) is the most beauty model, mainly CECHB model(my opinion).

I've 9 PS3 (4 USB): 5x CECHA, 2x CECHB, 2x CECHE. 8 defective units.

I saw about tantalum capacitor solution about June 2019 in brazilian sites. I bought 50 units (330uf x 2.5v) on AliEXpress in August 2019, but only now (February 2020) that I used in some units.

Before remove the Nec Tokins I analyze the various voltages on board. If OK I analyze the IC6201(RSX) and IC6103(CELL/BE), both IC's are a NCP5318. The pin 7 its a indicator of power failure. If a PS3 has a short YLOD its probably that pin 7 is in low level.

My first PS3 with capacitor changed was a CECHA01, it had a 2.5 sec YLOD, all important voltages are OK, I added 2 tantalums on NEC TOKIN (RSX), PS3 still in YLOD. So I changed 2 NEC TOKIN (RSX) with 8 tantalums capacitors (330uf), still in YLOD, I changed 2 NEC TOKIN (CELL) wit 8 tantalums capacitors, also. After 16 tamtaluns this PS3 come back and work without problems. I still not tested with GT6 or The Last of US because the OFW is in 3.41.

The second PS3 (CECHB) had a short YLOD, I analyzed all the voltages and 1.7V_MISC was down after F6303. I changed C6355(was in short circuit) and F6303. After changes the PS3 still in YLOD, sometimes short, sometimes long (3.5 sec), all voltages are OK. I decided added 2 tantalums on RSX capacitors and no success, still in long YLOD, I remove 1 NEC TOKIN (RSX), still in long YLOD, remove the second NEC TOKIN (RSX) and the PS3 goes to short YLOD.


For testing purposes I soldered 2 tantalums and the CECHB turned on and still working, the RSX line have 2 NEC TOKIN and 2 tantalums, sometimes it have a YLOD. I will solder more tantalums on RSX line. I bought this CECHB01 3 years ago, it was sealed, the NEC TOKINS appear in good situation (I will upload photos).

I don't remember if was the first(CECHA01) or the second(CECHB01) PS3 where IC6201 pin 7 was down and I used a power suplly adjustable to simulate 3.2v (power good) and the PS3 had a YLOD after more than 3.5 secs, the CELL gets hot and the RSX gets warm.

Now I'm analyzing the third PS3(CECHE11). It have a short YLOD, all voltages are OK but IC6201 pin 7 is down. I tested simulating a 3.2v voltage(pin 7) and still with short YLOD, CELL gets warm and RSX still cold. I'm in doubt if change NEC TOKIN for tantalums will be a solution for this case.

I use a scope to analyze voltages and waveform.

I use an power suplly adjustable to test voltage lines in down or to discover short components

Just wondering when you said that the ic chip is low on certain pin due to ylod could you point which one is it on the board as I'm kinda wondering is that the same ic chip found on cechc03?

 

[128x.k]

Hey! Ok I checked all the capacitors with the multimeter all good, took off 2nd set of wires, re soldered everything even better making sure no positives were touching negative.

Still 1 second ylod. powers on green, fan ramps up then ylod.

I cant put my finger on it

What doesnt make sense is the history.
it worked again from the heat up for 2 months then 2-3 second ylod

then i replaced just top capacitors then immediate ylod

then i changed all of them and now 1 second ylod with only 1 bridge per side (not immediately) Any advice? Thanks!

 

[joe musashi]

guys i have ps3 slim 2504 i played last of us i took long time play but after i save the game i putted my ear on the ps3 i heard the fan ran with laoud sound and rsx 75 temperature is that game realy does damage for the ps3

 

[pinky]

guys i have ps3 slim 2504 i played last of us i took long time play but after i save the game i putted my ear on the ps3 i heard the fan ran with laoud sound and rsx 75 temperature is that game realy does damage for the ps3

it's in the top three for sure on most intensive games for the ps3. it's a good indicator if there's a problem. 75 isn't bad for that game. if it got to the 80s, then I'd say you had a problem.

 

[Cypher_CG89]

guys i have ps3 slim 2504 i played last of us i took long time play but after i save the game i putted my ear on the ps3 i heard the fan ran with laoud sound and rsx 75 temperature is that game realy does damage for the ps3

What ever issue your having has nothing to do with NEC's or anything on this thread. For one your model PS3 has no NEC/Tokken Caps, it has all tantalums.

 

[sandungas]

What doesnt make sense is the history.
it worked again from the heat up for 2 months then 2-3 second ylod

That was a nice proof pointing to the tokins btw. When repairing electronics there are many times where we dont have any proof, but for you incase of doubt you have to keep that in mind
Heating the tokins fixed the problem (at least temporally) so we could bet at that point the problem was in the tokins

then i replaced just top capacitors then immediate ylod

then i changed all of them and now 1 second ylod with only 1 bridge per side (not immediately) Any advice? Thanks!

Not sure what to say, electrically what can be seen in your photos is correct :/

 

[LSL]

Also @LSL I see you quoted me but cant see if you wrote anything.

Thank you so much!!View attachment 24446View attachment 24447

1 second YLOD means that there is no voltage, check if there is voltage on the CELL and RSX.

Yesterday, I analyzed the fourth PS3 (CECHA00), it had 1 second YLOD, I added 2 tantalum caps and got 3 seconds of YLOD.

I removed all NEC TOKIN on top, put 8 tantalum caps on each side and I got 1sec YLOD too. I will try to test adding more tantalum caps

Try to remove one by one. Example: sometimes I got 1 sec YLOD with 8 tantalum caps, but with 6 it works.

I test every tantalum before solder on board.

Just wondering when you said that the ic chip is low on certain pin due to ylod could you point which one is it on the board as I'm kinda wondering is that the same ic chip found on cechc03?

Yes, the same chip on COK-001 and COK-002 boards

Datasheet NCP5318: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP5318-D.PDF

 

[LSL]

1 second YLOD means that there is no voltage, check if there is voltage on the CELL and RSX.

Yesterday, I analyzed the fourth PS3 (CECHA00), it had 1 second YLOD, I added 2 tantalum caps and got 3 seconds of YLOD.

I removed all NEC TOKIN on top, put 8 tantalum caps on each side and I got 1sec YLOD too. I will try to test adding more tantalum caps

Try to remove one by one. Example: sometimes I got 1 sec YLOD with 8 tantalum caps, but with 6 it works.

I test every tantalum before solder on board.



Yes, the same chip on COK-001 and COK-002 boards

Datasheet NCP5318: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP5318-D.PDF

I check pin 7.

If the PS3 has YLOD I check the pin with scope, if it have 0v I use the adjustable power supply to apply 3.0v 300mA, if the PS3 delays the YLOD I change the NEC TOKINS. Warning: If Ylod delay the CELL gets hot, so put the motherboard in the heatsink and plug Fan cables.

 

[ElGris]

@128x.k It's strange, since you had a delayed YLOD before installing those new capacitors. How many tantalums did you use per NEC TOKIN? How are the measurements (values) you did on those 470uf tantalums?

@LSL I found mostly shorts on the mobo when having an instant YLOD, and sometimes it's common when a NEC is faulty and is not definitely shorting the mobo (when you need to turn on many times the console in order to make it boot). When a RSX is damaged, capacitors on it will be in short, producing an instant YLOD. That's why it's better to check that first when tantalums are already installed correctly.

When you already double check that, you're at the beginning of the maze. And btw, try at least 3 tantalums per NEC, 24 in total if you remove all NECs. The recommended are 4 per NEC.

 

[LSL]

it's in the top three for sure on most intensive games for the ps3. it's a good indicator if there's a problem. 75 isn't bad for that game. if it got to the 80s, then I'd say you had a problem.

Last weekend I tested my CECHB01 with 2 tantalum caps, CELL was 80°C and RSX was 70°C. The fan spin quietly, but when it change to the next stage I got a YLOD. Will be necessary more tantalum caps?

My CECHA01 with 16 tantalum (8 to RSX, 8 to CELL) have 75°C on CELL and 58°C on RSX but fan spins on stage 2 or 3. Both PS3 (CECHA01 and CECHB01) I got Ylod at the beginning of The Last of US.

 

[ElGris]

Last weekend I tested my CECHB01 with 2 tantalum caps, CELL was 80°C and RSX was 70°C. The fan spin quietly, but when it change to the next stage I got a YLOD. Will be necessary more tantalum caps?

My CECHA01 with 16 tantalum (8 to RSX, 8 to CELL) have 75°C on CELL and 58°C on RSX but fan spins on stage 2 or 3. Both PS3 (CECHA01 and CECHB01) I got Ylod at the beginning of The Last of US.

That means delid.

P/S: ASAP.

 

[pinky]

Last weekend I tested my CECHB01 with 2 tantalum caps, CELL was 80°C and RSX was 70°C. The fan spin quietly, but when it change to the next stage I got a YLOD. Will be necessary more tantalum caps?

My CECHA01 with 16 tantalum (8 to RSX, 8 to CELL) have 75°C on CELL and 58°C on RSX but fan spins on stage 2 or 3. Both PS3 (CECHA01 and CECHB01) I got Ylod at the beginning of The Last of US.

that first system is a little high. afaik, there shouldn't be more than say a 10-12 degrees C difference between cell and rsx or it could indicate a problem.