PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

wrx884 said:
Ido u have a data sheet for the tant caps ur using?? if they are and sit taller than 2.8mm they will hit on the frame on that side of the board like u found out, especially if u decide to do more on that side. With the metal tabs that ur not removing, it will add to that height so u might have a couple things to consider to re do here or mayb even modify to make them work. U could test this as is but if u put too much pressure on those caps as they are u could break ur solder joins with out knowing as they could be close to being cold joins already.
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Yeah, they sit at almost 4mm height. Bust?

I sent you a private PM.
 
what kind of flux are you using? I like to use colophan rosin flux. I've done alot of my stuff with a sub par hand me down iron till I ruined the tip from use. Then I got a decent hakko iron and it made a world of difference. Maybe find a shifty old radio or similar that you don't use and just practice taking components off, cleaning the area, prepping the area and reaatching the component. It sounds like your flux is sub par
 
nCadeRegal said:
what kind of flux are you using? I like to use colophan rosin flux. I've done alot of my stuff with a sub par hand me down iron till I ruined the tip from use. Then I got a decent hakko iron and it made a world of difference. Maybe find a shifty old radio or similar that you don't use and just practice taking components off, cleaning the area, prepping the area and reaatching the component. It sounds like your flux is sub par
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Im using a $30 tub of rosin gel flux, or should i say 'was using'. I think my soldering iron, and solder itself is sub par, with my skills itself, shocking. Most likely getting the job outsourced before i do any more damage so i promise no more post spam from me on here :D
 
Hey man everybody's gotta learn somewhere give up you never will Just keep trying. only experience I had was in residential plumbing and sweating copper together. Now I can do micro components with my soldering iron I would have never even thought about touching before. My next investment is a rework station with hot air. I work so much though I never have time to game let alone tinker..
 
ElGris said:
If your solder iron is 40W you don't need anything else. The secret here is in adding a good amount of solder or "tin" to the sides of every contact of the NECs (with a good amount of flux too). Then, with the tip of the iron, go from one corner of the contact to the other, for a few seconds until the tin goes something liquid, then you're ready to use something really sharp to remove that crap those failed caps leave. The tin there is really old, and you need new stuff to make it something usable, and with the help of the flux you can maintain the temperature, like a bubble, you just need practice, that's all.

If the tip of your solder is black, burned, use resine to clean it. See that on youtube.
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40 watts is very small for such a heat-intensive board. 80-100 watts recommended. @SeanRanklin, Have this in mind
 
SeanRanklin said:
I might go for a soldering station with temp control. What would be ideal temp for removing these metal strips off the board? Also ideal temp to solder the tantalums down?
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I'd have to get back with you on what I use, at the time it was $120 and the price dropped to about $80 these days. It's a Yihua brand. It's a hot air and solder iron in one unit.

I had to practically max out my solder station, Max on it is 480c, but I had it set to 400c. The board just soaks so much heat.

Your issue is definitely the iron since you're struggling so much getting these tabs off.

Don't be worried about hurting the board, it SOAKS up heat

Once you get these tabs off finally, with a new solder station, you can use solder braid to soak up all the old solder - adding new solder will help get it off with a lower melting point. Then you can add a thin layer of fresh solder with a more reasonable 320-350c temp

It can be frustrating no doubt, when I first started soldering I had the same concerns you did. Eventually with practice, it will just 'click'.

So don't get discouraged. This a learning experience for a few of us too!
 
Hey @squeept, I know you said you would, so I thought I'd get your opinion -- what do you think of this low cost scope? Reviews around the web are generally positive, but do you think it'll do the job? The link for the scope you listed before is dead...

Anyway, here's the one I'm looking at -- JYETech 'DSO Shell' Oscilloscope DIY Kit w/Enclosure, 100MHz Probe, Clip Probe & ESD-Safe Silicone Mat https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y1T6WZ9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-k8QEbXCQC2C8
 
SeanRanklin said:
I might go for a soldering station with temp control. What would be ideal temp for removing these metal strips off the board? Also ideal temp to solder the tantalums down?
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the fact is that the temperature of the soldering station does not determine anything, if its power is not enough, even if you set 400 degrees, the soldering iron will not be able to heat this board even to 220, because its heat capacity is huge. this only works with an induction station of high power, the set temperature is always maintained at the end, while in ordinary stations the temperature is set much higher to compensate for the heat capacity, usually 300-350 degrees, but for such a board, for heat-sensitive components like tokens, this is not suitable, need a heat gun to help the soldering iron, or bottom heating, or a very powerful soldering iron, I think that it's not even worthwhile to go into a soldering iron less than 100 watts, given that there is no heat gun and bottom heating
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies and assistance. I was not able to complete the job myself but have found the help of a very generous person who is willing to take this on for me. Truth is, this is a difficult job. It looks rather simplistic on youtube, but you need to take into consideration that the people posting these videos have loads of experience and at least intermediate soldering skills. It's very very difficult for a total newbie to attempt this and expect great results.

I'm honestly not trying to deter anyone thinking of doing this, but I want to make sure you are aware of the skills and equipment needed to do this job properly.
 
marciolsf said:
Hey @squeept, I know you said you would, so I thought I'd get your opinion -- what do you think of this low cost scope? Reviews around the web are generally positive, but do you think it'll do the job? The link for the scope you listed before is dead...

Anyway, here's the one I'm looking at -- JYETech 'DSO Shell' Oscilloscope DIY Kit w/Enclosure, 100MHz Probe, Clip Probe & ESD-Safe Silicone Mat https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y1T6WZ9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-k8QEbXCQC2C8
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Sneaky, they try to trick you with the specs on that one. 100MHz would certainly work, but that's the probe max. The scope itself can only go up to 200KHz and 10us/div. You'll need something at least 5MHz that can show up to 1us/div and 50mV/div.

I can't seem to find any of the $40 ones again that look like they'll fit the bill, but this one at $50 looks like it will work: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V6795WP/

Here's one at about $40 on AliExpress if you feel like dicking with China: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982360714.html
 
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squeept said:
Sneaky, they try to trick you with the specs on that one. 100MHz would certainly work, but that's the probe max. The scope itself can only go up to 200KHz and 10us/div. You'll need something at least 5MHz that can show up to 1us/div and 50mV/div.

I can't seem to find any of the $40 ones again that look like they'll fit the bill, but this one at $50 looks like it will work: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V6795WP/

Here's one at about $40 on AliExpress if you feel like dicking with China: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32982360714.html
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Would this be a good one
https://www.sainsmart.com/products/dds-120-pc-based-virtual-oscilloscope-silver
 
SeanRanklin said:
Thanks to everyone for the replies and assistance. I was not able to complete the job myself but have found the help of a very generous person who is willing to take this on for me. Truth is, this is a difficult job. It looks rather simplistic on youtube, but you need to take into consideration that the people posting these videos have loads of experience and at least intermediate soldering skills. It's very very difficult for a total newbie to attempt this and expect great results.

I'm honestly not trying to deter anyone thinking of doing this, but I want to make sure you are aware of the skills and equipment needed to do this job properly.
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To be honest bro, your 1st attempt was actually really good, for someone who has never soldered before as you mentioned, i was super impressed with your de-soldering & soldering work. I think you have a natural talent for it. As you said - this is not an easy job, many here with a spectrum of experience are finding it difficult.

Add to that, like others have said here too - this board needs to get really hot for the solder to wet properly, i found i had to go upto 433°C with a phat flat iron tip else i would keep getting cold solders, and de-soldering under 433°C, like at 400°C, was difficult too.

So with the tools you had, you did a great job. Took me years until i could do what you did on your 1st attempt.
 
hoyohoo said:
Ok, I get it. Can I measure the caps while still soldered? I guess not, so I will have to unsolder them yet again. And if I really do so, I could also just order 50 tantals from china, which are rated for 2,5V, so I can solder them in properly and fitting the diagonal pattern suggested on page 1. The tantals I use now are just too big, in lengt and height. I hope, I havent bend the PCB with them :/
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Sorry for late reply, hope it's not too late, as you already mentioned, yeah it's best to measure the caps out of circuit (while not soldered to the board) otherwise it will give false readings because the caps are connected to other components on the board.

So yeah if you have your eye on some low-height caps, (the black ones) try them out, cause' the AVX type (yellow ones) can end up being too high, and could touch the PS3 metal sheild once re-assembled, creating a short circuit.

The "black caps", used here by many comrades, seem to be the best way forward, because they are much lower. Also Sony used these type later in the PS3 revisions when they replaced NEC/Tokins with Tans.
 
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ElGris said:
I little bit of my feedback here:

So my 100 caps arrived yesterday, and as soon as I could, I opened my fatties to bring them to live ^^
For this case, I had three BCs, 2 CECHA and 1 CECHC, the other ones I have, have GLOD sadly. Well I'll add info and behaviour before and after the replacement of the caps, and some pictures.

CECHA-1
Instant YLOD when turning it on. After I replaced the caps, I realized the console had no more instant YLOD, and instead just a HDMI signal with black screen, which means the console is ready to show image, the problem here is that the console since it's turned on, gets hot almost instantly, so after I applied thermal compound, I could get image via HDMI but for a couple of seconds because the PS3 turns off due temperature being so high. The fan goes at high speed while all this happens, so take in mind that if you see this after a caps replacement, then you need to delid the CELL.

CECHA-2
The same as CECHA-1, but in this case, no matter what, I couldn't get any image to confirm that the PS3 needs a delidding. But I'm pretty sure is only that since the same happened with the first CECHA (fan going crazy in a few seconds, black screen but little time to see any image and a caution message. The PS3 just shut down).

CECHE

Everything went perfect with this one. YLOD almost in 2 seconds and fan going crazy for a moment. After the replacement, It works really, really good. I must say that, first I used 3 caps per Tokin, on both RSX and CELL. I updated to 4.85HFW, installed HEN and saw the temperatures, which were really high, so I needed to put the fan at 45% when testing games. GT6, no problem with 3 caps per Tokin, TLoU gave me a shut down, so this time I tried 4 per Tokin (only on RSX), and had no problem with it after that. Uncharted 2 runs good too, but as I said, this one needs a delidding too, fuuuuuu..

So if you wanna buy a BC, it will need a delidding. NO MATTER WHAT. I'll add the rest of my feedback when those CECHA are delidded.

P/S: A CECHG that I had was working without 4 Tokins (before removed them it had YLOD). Weird, but don't ask what happened to it, I only can say that the delidding FAILED.

Caps: 470uf 6.3v

https://i.imgur.com/HnN4xkL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aLDCHI0.jpg
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@ElGris ...Hiya mate, please could you let me know what size gauge wire you used, i've been using 22-23AWG solid wire, but i see alot of people using what seems like 20AWG and/or 18AWG stranded. So i'm in the middle of re-doing the bridge wires and was wondering what you had used?

Also @cfreddykrueger, and @Yugonibblit, and others, what size gauge did you guys use for the bridge wires, and were they solid, or stranded? Soz to bring up old posts, you guys prolly busy now, rinsing out 'The Last of Us' on your Super Ultra PS3s (wings of gold edition) :angel:
 
Workz_777 said:
@ElGris ...Hiya mate, please could you let me know what size gauge wire you used, i've been using 22-23AWG solid wire, but i see alot of people using what seems like 20AWG and/or 18AWG stranded. So i'm in the middle of re-doing the bridge wires and was wondering what you had used?

Also @cfreddykrueger, and @Yugonibblit, and others, what size gauge did you guys use for the bridge wires, and were they solid, or stranded? Soz to bring up old posts, you guys prolly busy now, rinsing out 'The Last of Us' on your Super Ultra PS3s (wings of gold edition) :angel:
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6932a4da7cc6f1198b139bca1dde44fa.jpg

@Workz_777

Here's the wire I used for my jumper. I found it at work so I don't have a link.

It's 18 awg single conductor good for 105 c at 600 volts or 90 c at 1000 volts. Well we're getting nowhere near those temps so we're good [emoji1787]

Hope this helps

abd4bb458bfe256fd95420ba746ac339.jpg

c43cd7c1e6de14fd108c81c71ee806a8.jpg



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