PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

Hiya All, hope everything at your end is doing very well.

:D...take 2, so i re-did the Tantalum + MLCCs combination (just on the bridge wire only), this time i doubled checked the (+) and (-) lol, so far the PS3 is running great!

For this build i added another MLCC to the array from before, so now total capacitors = 72.

Each NEC has been replaced with:-
Tantalums (Vishay size B):
4 x 470uF - 2.5V
MLCCs (Murata, Taiyo Yuden, Vishay, size 1206)
1 x 22uF - 10V
1 x 10uF - 10V
1 x 1uF - 10V
1 x 0.1uF - 10V
1 x 0.01uF - 10V

Using thin card, wrapped in Kapton tape, with "slug (copper) tape" to make the traces, also the traces are wrapped around under touching the board on the contact strips. Here's the (B) side of board...
View attachment 26426

Here's the (A) side of board...
View attachment 26427

And the PS3 running...

View attachment 26428


:very drunk: Again thanks so much for spotting my silly mistake on my last build. I'm gonna aim to test this latest working set up and update you guys soon all being well, just need to run some intensive games. Unfortunately i don't have an o-scope to measure anything, i wish i did though, maybe soon.

Honestly this is very impressive what you've done. Have you tried running anything intensive like GT6 or TLOU?

Also, can you or anyone else really, clarify what you mean when you say "on the bridge wire only". My assumption was that all these cards are the same and each one acts as a bridge in the same way an NEC cap would.

I'll definitely have to make some of these and give them a go!
 
i removed 2 each RSX NEC and solder 8 each 6.3v 470uf on RSX.still YLOD.
i should say i just put the power supply on the board and turn it on.without installing that metal plate and wifi and etc..
View attachment 26425

Hiya, from my experience when i replaced the 8 x old NECs, with 8 x "new" NECs, at first i wanted to test with just half to see, and i still had YLOD, it wasn't until i had installed all 8 x "new" NECs that the PS3 worked again.

When i measured the "new" NECs they were like 1400uF to 1600uF (approx)... so really each processor is getting 6000uF. When i did my tests with the Tantalums + MLCCs (as can be seen in my post above), i tired 1st with only (approx) 4800uF on each processor and i had YLOD, only when i installed 7000uF+ (16 x 470uF) per processor, did the PS3 work again, anything less wouldn't work at all, or would work only 30% of the time, the more capacitors = the more it worked.

Tantalum capacitors genereally have a 10 - 20% tolerance, but if they come from China, like some i played around with, oh man - some 470uFs (20%) were actually reading at 600 - 700uF+ !! So unless the capacitors are of high quality and sourced from authentic places, then aiming for 4800uF per processor won't be enough with cheap caps. So aim for 6000 - 7000uF per processor and that should help even with cheap chinese capacitors.

But... even with quality capacitors, i would still aim for 6000uF per processor.

So @aminiani, if you replace only 2 NECs with Tantalums, and the other 2 NECs that you leave are the faulty ones, then you will likely only have approx' 3760uF (8 x 470uF) in total per processor, that's not enough, it's like another 3500uF too short to work, as mentioned above.

Also, if the internal bridging wire of the NECs you left on the board is faulty, then this too will result in YLOD with your present attempt / set-up. Because potentially no current is getting across to the processors without correct bridge wires. But then adding a bridge wire with a full Tantalum replacement can be problematic. Please see my photos above from my latest post, and how the capacitors are only on the bridge wire, otherwise adding a "raw" bridge wire in parallel to the tantalum capacitors can potentially cause some, or most of the current to get re-routed, and not get filtered properly by the capacitors, before then arriving at the processors.

So in short, total capacitance of 6000uF - 7000uF+ per processor, lower end if using high quality capacitors, and higher end if using cheap chinese capacitors. If a person ends up replacing all the NECs with Tantalums, then they are forced to consider the bridging wire(s), and how they will go about installing them correctly to not get YLOD.
 
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Hiya All, hope everything at your end is doing very well.

:D...take 2, so i re-did the Tantalum + MLCCs combination (just on the bridge wire only), this time i doubled checked the (+) and (-) lol, so far the PS3 is running great!

For this build i added another MLCC to the array from before, so now total capacitors = 72.

Each NEC has been replaced with:-
Tantalums (Vishay size B):
4 x 470uF - 2.5V
MLCCs (Murata, Taiyo Yuden, Vishay, size 1206)
1 x 22uF - 10V
1 x 10uF - 10V
1 x 1uF - 10V
1 x 0.1uF - 10V
1 x 0.01uF - 10V

Using thin card, wrapped in Kapton tape, with "slug (copper) tape" to make the traces, also the traces are wrapped around under touching the board on the contact strips. Here's the (B) side of board...
View attachment 26426

Here's the (A) side of board...
View attachment 26427

And the PS3 running...

View attachment 26428


:very drunk: Again thanks so much for spotting my silly mistake on my last build. I'm gonna aim to test this latest working set up and update you guys soon all being well, just need to run some intensive games. Unfortunately i don't have an o-scope to measure anything, i wish i did though, maybe soon.
i have some question..
1:why you add MLCC between tantals?
2:is it nessesary to solder the bridge wire?
3:can we use aluminium tape instead of copper tape?
 
Hiya All, hope everything at your end is doing very well.

:D...take 2, so i re-did the Tantalum + MLCCs combination (just on the bridge wire only), this time i doubled checked the (+) and (-) lol, so far the PS3 is running great!

For this build i added another MLCC to the array from before, so now total capacitors = 72.

Each NEC has been replaced with:-
Tantalums (Vishay size B):
4 x 470uF - 2.5V
MLCCs (Murata, Taiyo Yuden, Vishay, size 1206)
1 x 22uF - 10V
1 x 10uF - 10V
1 x 1uF - 10V
1 x 0.1uF - 10V
1 x 0.01uF - 10V

Using thin card, wrapped in Kapton tape, with "slug (copper) tape" to make the traces, also the traces are wrapped around under touching the board on the contact strips. Here's the (B) side of board...
View attachment 26426

Here's the (A) side of board...
View attachment 26427

And the PS3 running...

View attachment 26428


:very drunk: Again thanks so much for spotting my silly mistake on my last build. I'm gonna aim to test this latest working set up and update you guys soon all being well, just need to run some intensive games. Unfortunately i don't have an o-scope to measure anything, i wish i did though, maybe soon.

can u please do a video tutorial how to do card, wrapped in Kapton it's much better then to enplane how to do it be words especially whom are weak in english
 
buongiorno, ti scrivo dall'Italia. Ho il mio PS3 cechc-04 interessato da YLOD. Ho fatto il reballing ma è durato solo 2 giorni. Ho pensato che i colpevoli siano proprio questi NEC / TOKIN perché se uso l'asciugacapelli per 5 minuti, riprende a funzionare per alcune ore al giorno. E ho notato che se lo tengo troppo a lungo la prossima volta che viene acceso dopo 5 minuti, YLOD ritorna. Pensi che sia colpa dei cattivi NEC?

English:
good morning, I am writing to you from Italy. I have my PS3 cechc-04 affected by YLOD. I did the reballing but it only lasted 2 days. I thought the culprits are precisely these NEC / TOKIN because if I use the hairdryer for 5 minutes, it starts working again for a few hours a day. And I noticed that if I keep it too long the next time it is turned on after 5 minutes, YLOD returns. Do you think it's the fault of the bad NECs?
 
buongiorno, ti scrivo dall'Italia. Ho il mio PS3 cechc-04 interessato da YLOD. Ho fatto il reballing ma è durato solo 2 giorni. Ho pensato che i colpevoli siano proprio questi NEC / TOKIN perché se uso l'asciugacapelli per 5 minuti, riprende a funzionare per alcune ore al giorno. E ho notato che se lo tengo troppo a lungo la prossima volta che viene acceso dopo 5 minuti, YLOD ritorna. Pensi che sia colpa dei cattivi NEC?

English:
good morning, I am writing to you from Italy. I have my PS3 cechc-04 affected by YLOD. I did the reballing but it only lasted 2 days. I thought the culprits are precisely these NEC / TOKIN because if I use the hairdryer for 5 minutes, it starts working again for a few hours a day. And I noticed that if I keep it too long the next time it is turned on after 5 minutes, YLOD returns. Do you think it's the fault of the bad NECs?
si prega di fornire una traduzione in inglese

please provide english translation
 
good morning I am writing to you from Italy. I have my PS3 cechc-04 affected by YLOD. I had the reballing done but it only lasted 2 days. I thought that the culprits are precisely these NEC / TOKIN because if I use the hairdryer for 5 minutes, it starts working again for a few hours / day. And I noticed that if I keep it off for too long the next time it is turned on after 5 minutes the YLOD returns. Do you think it's the fault of the bad NECs?
 
While I am glad that people have found ways to resurrect their old PlayStation 3s and this has been brought to light. This topic has caused a lot of people to believe this is the true root cause of the YLOD. Interesting how everyone was saying "Don't get tunnel vision about how they died, it's not always the solder!" Now the exact thing has happened with this capacitor replacement, people on reddit, youtube, wikis claiming that this is responsible for 90% of all YLODs, and in fact on the first page Naked Snake STILL claims this. Sweeping generalizations like this are not helpful and are probably more destructive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS3/comments/cff5hg/ylod_conclusion_capacitors_are_the_problem_not/
https://retroconsoles.fandom.com/wiki/Yellow_Light_of_Death

There is still not enough data or information suggested in the thread that this fix is for most of the YLOD PS3s. It absolutely boggles my mind people will immediately jump to this fix without performing any troubleshooting. 129 pages and I've seen two people try to utilize a oscilloscope. Additionally, some people who claimed this worked never seemed to have come back and reported if their Playstation was still functional or not. It's the same as saying a reflow worked but never reporting back your findings.
 
Hiya, from my experience when i replaced the 8 x old NECs, with 8 x "new" NECs, at first i wanted to test with just half to see, and i still had YLOD, it wasn't until i had installed all 8 x "new" NECs that the PS3 worked again.

When i measured the "new" NECs they were like 1400uF to 1600uF (approx)... so really each processor is getting 6000uF. When i did my tests with the Tantalums + MLCCs (as can be seen in my post above), i tired 1st with only (approx) 4800uF on each processor and i had YLOD, only when i installed 7000uF+ (16 x 470uF) per processor, did the PS3 work again, anything less wouldn't work at all, or would work only 30% of the time, the more capacitors = the more it worked.

Tantalum capacitors genereally have a 10 - 20% tolerance, but if they come from China, like some i played around with, oh man - some 470uFs (20%) were actually reading at 600 - 700uF+ !! So unless the capacitors are of high quality and sourced from authentic places, then aiming for 4800uF per processor won't be enough with cheap caps. So aim for 6000 - 7000uF per processor and that should help even with cheap chinese capacitors.

But... even with quality capacitors, i would still aim for 6000uF per processor.

So @aminiani, if you replace only 2 NECs with Tantalums, and the other 2 NECs that you leave are the faulty ones, then you will likely only have approx' 3760uF (8 x 470uF) in total per processor, that's not enough, it's like another 3500uF too short to work, as mentioned above.

Also, if the internal bridging wire of the NECs you left on the board is faulty, then this too will result in YLOD with your present attempt / set-up. Because potentially no current is getting across to the processors without correct bridge wires. But then adding a bridge wire with a full Tantalum replacement can be problematic. Please see my photos above from my latest post, and how the capacitors are only on the bridge wire, otherwise adding a "raw" bridge wire in parallel to the tantalum capacitors can potentially cause some, or most of the current to get re-routed, and not get filtered properly by the capacitors, before then arriving at the processors.

So in short, total capacitance of 6000uF - 7000uF+ per processor, lower end if using high quality capacitors, and higher end if using cheap chinese capacitors. If a person ends up replacing all the NECs with Tantalums, then they are forced to consider the bridging wire(s), and how they will go about installing them correctly to not get YLOD.
I also solder the new tantals on CELL but still not instant YLOD.
Also check all of the tantals continuity by multimeter..but still YLOD.

20200626_234423.jpg
 
While I am glad that people have found ways to resurrect their old PlayStation 3s and this has been brought to light. This topic has caused a lot of people to believe this is the true root cause of the YLOD. Interesting how everyone was saying "Don't get tunnel vision about how they died, it's not always the solder!" Now the exact thing has happened with this capacitor replacement, people on reddit, youtube, wikis claiming that this is responsible for 90% of all YLODs, and in fact on the first page Naked Snake STILL claims this. Sweeping generalizations like this are not helpful and are probably more destructive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS3/comments/cff5hg/ylod_conclusion_capacitors_are_the_problem_not/
https://retroconsoles.fandom.com/wiki/Yellow_Light_of_Death

There is still not enough data or information suggested in the thread that this fix is for most of the YLOD PS3s. It absolutely boggles my mind people will immediately jump to this fix without performing any troubleshooting. 129 pages and I've seen two people try to utilize a oscilloscope. Additionally, some people who claimed this worked never seemed to have come back and reported if their Playstation was still functional or not. It's the same as saying a reflow worked but never reporting back your findings.

Agree.
As PS3 is getting aged by now, of course there can be a higher risk capacitors, what those Tokins are, fail more often than in the past. Haven't read the whole thread yet but did notice that of the people replacing them some had success but others still didn't get it to work, still ylod. If everything was done correctly and it still didn't work big chance it's a BGA solder problem. Which was the cause in the first years of failing PS3s. Friend has done 1000's with very high success rate working for yearsagain. Fat PS3s failing after a few years reballed and still working .

Like everyone now saying reballing is bullshit"".
There's been done many real scientific research using röntgen fotos, electron microscopes, dye and pry method etc proving there often is a BGA solder problem, they even rarely fail on silicon (internal) level.

Of course some BGA can become damaged internally but that's rather an exception. Was probably more a problem in the transition from lead to lead free solder period. Like nVidia making a bad decision using a wrong type of solder bumps. Other manufacturers might have made the same mistakes back then, doubt that's still a big problem now... Or Microsoft admitting later there was indeed a solder related BGA problem blaming that transition period and lead free solder.

Still doing reballs, rarely PS3 or other consoles but If I'd get a PS3 of course I'll also check the Tokins (time to setup my oscilloscope again).

Will keep doing reballs if it's BGA related no matter how many say "it's not the solder but the BGA".
There's enough scientific research data proving that if a BGA seems to cause the problem it's most likely a solder problem related to that BGA. Research I trust more than a person and/or all the parrots saying "it's not the BGA but...."
 
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While I am glad that people have found ways to resurrect their old PlayStation 3s and this has been brought to light. This topic has caused a lot of people to believe this is the true root cause of the YLOD. Interesting how everyone was saying "Don't get tunnel vision about how they died, it's not always the solder!" Now the exact thing has happened with this capacitor replacement, people on reddit, youtube, wikis claiming that this is responsible for 90% of all YLODs, and in fact on the first page Naked Snake STILL claims this. Sweeping generalizations like this are not helpful and are probably more destructive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS3/comments/cff5hg/ylod_conclusion_capacitors_are_the_problem_not/
https://retroconsoles.fandom.com/wiki/Yellow_Light_of_Death

There is still not enough data or information suggested in the thread that this fix is for most of the YLOD PS3s. It absolutely boggles my mind people will immediately jump to this fix without performing any troubleshooting. 129 pages and I've seen two people try to utilize a oscilloscope. Additionally, some people who claimed this worked never seemed to have come back and reported if their Playstation was still functional or not. It's the same as saying a reflow worked but never reporting back your findings.
I will claim 10 consoles that I did the NEC/TOKIN repair and all are still functional. But this is not always the problem I agree but at least it gives people a chance to fix there old console inexpensively and have some fun at doing it it's not a great loss seeing how cheap a ps3 is now a days. Some people like doing things like a hobby and not as a competitor. For the perfect answer just my opinion I'm an assh.le.
 
While I am glad that people have found ways to resurrect their old PlayStation 3s and this has been brought to light. This topic has caused a lot of people to believe this is the true root cause of the YLOD. Interesting how everyone was saying "Don't get tunnel vision about how they died, it's not always the solder!" Now the exact thing has happened with this capacitor replacement, people on reddit, youtube, wikis claiming that this is responsible for 90% of all YLODs, and in fact on the first page Naked Snake STILL claims this. Sweeping generalizations like this are not helpful and are probably more destructive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS3/comments/cff5hg/ylod_conclusion_capacitors_are_the_problem_not/
https://retroconsoles.fandom.com/wiki/Yellow_Light_of_Death

There is still not enough data or information suggested in the thread that this fix is for most of the YLOD PS3s. It absolutely boggles my mind people will immediately jump to this fix without performing any troubleshooting. 129 pages and I've seen two people try to utilize a oscilloscope. Additionally, some people who claimed this worked never seemed to have come back and reported if their Playstation was still functional or not. It's the same as saying a reflow worked but never reporting back your findings.

I actually agree with many of your points. I'm one of those that replaced all the tokins with tantalums and still have a dead system. I'm definitely grateful that this thread exists, but I also think there's definitely a lot to learn still.

On that note, a few of us have started a new thread to try to document error codes and whatever else we can find to properly diagnose a dead system, *before you start removing components! All it takes is an inexpensive usb-uart adapter ($10 on Amazon), and then you can join us at https://www.psx-place.com/threads/f...syscon-first-steps-and-error-reporting.30100/.
 
Hiya, from my experience when i replaced the 8 x old NECs, with 8 x "new" NECs, at first i wanted to test with just half to see, and i still had YLOD, it wasn't until i had installed all 8 x "new" NECs that the PS3 worked again.

When i measured the "new" NECs they were like 1400uF to 1600uF (approx)... so really each processor is getting 6000uF. When i did my tests with the Tantalums + MLCCs (as can be seen in my post above), i tired 1st with only (approx) 4800uF on each processor and i had YLOD, only when i installed 7000uF+ (16 x 470uF) per processor, did the PS3 work again, anything less wouldn't work at all, or would work only 30% of the time, the more capacitors = the more it worked.

Tantalum capacitors genereally have a 10 - 20% tolerance, but if they come from China, like some i played around with, oh man - some 470uFs (20%) were actually reading at 600 - 700uF+ !! So unless the capacitors are of high quality and sourced from authentic places, then aiming for 4800uF per processor won't be enough with cheap caps. So aim for 6000 - 7000uF per processor and that should help even with cheap chinese capacitors.

But... even with quality capacitors, i would still aim for 6000uF per processor.

So @aminiani, if you replace only 2 NECs with Tantalums, and the other 2 NECs that you leave are the faulty ones, then you will likely only have approx' 3760uF (8 x 470uF) in total per processor, that's not enough, it's like another 3500uF too short to work, as mentioned above.

Also, if the internal bridging wire of the NECs you left on the board is faulty, then this too will result in YLOD with your present attempt / set-up. Because potentially no current is getting across to the processors without correct bridge wires. But then adding a bridge wire with a full Tantalum replacement can be problematic. Please see my photos above from my latest post, and how the capacitors are only on the bridge wire, otherwise adding a "raw" bridge wire in parallel to the tantalum capacitors can potentially cause some, or most of the current to get re-routed, and not get filtered properly by the capacitors, before then arriving at the processors.

So in short, total capacitance of 6000uF - 7000uF+ per processor, lower end if using high quality capacitors, and higher end if using cheap chinese capacitors. If a person ends up replacing all the NECs with Tantalums, then they are forced to consider the bridging wire(s), and how they will go about installing them correctly to not get YLOD.
is bridge wire important between (+) of tantals or without bridge wire can work?
i watch some video in youtube and they did not have bridge wire between tantal and console working
 
Hiya All, hope everything at your end is doing very well.

:D...take 2, so i re-did the Tantalum + MLCCs combination (just on the bridge wire only), this time i doubled checked the (+) and (-) lol, so far the PS3 is running great!

For this build i added another MLCC to the array from before, so now total capacitors = 72.

Each NEC has been replaced with:-
Tantalums (Vishay size B):
4 x 470uF - 2.5V
MLCCs (Murata, Taiyo Yuden, Vishay, size 1206)
1 x 22uF - 10V
1 x 10uF - 10V
1 x 1uF - 10V
1 x 0.1uF - 10V
1 x 0.01uF - 10V

Using thin card, wrapped in Kapton tape, with "slug (copper) tape" to make the traces, also the traces are wrapped around under touching the board on the contact strips. Here's the (B) side of board...
View attachment 26426

Here's the (A) side of board...
View attachment 26427

And the PS3 running...

View attachment 26428


:very drunk: Again thanks so much for spotting my silly mistake on my last build. I'm gonna aim to test this latest working set up and update you guys soon all being well, just need to run some intensive games. Unfortunately i don't have an o-scope to measure anything, i wish i did though, maybe soon.

@Workz_777 maybe you can assemble one of these and send it to @squeept so he can run it through his oscope? Either way nice clean work man.
 
@Sabino Antonucci That's definitely a NEC issue, you should replace a few, or all of them if you are able to.

@Workz_777

"the more capacitors = the more it worked"

So we have now the first general rule for the NEC topic. Since you could tried a lot of brands and many designs, is nice to know that in this particular YLOD problem, the goal is just one: Putting some nice quality tantalums and trying to reach the correct capacitance to make the console boot, and from there, there's only extra-capacitance (+durability) for the console, 'cause we all know that capacitors lose capacitance with time. My question is, how many days did you try it with heave charge like TLOU? It's important, even for that mix with those MLCC.

@Blubberz Many people don't know anything about electronics, the little they know, they learnt it here in this thread by seeing experiments made by others, and they had to buy mininum stuff to perform this, and some could revive their consoles, and others couldn't, but it was that or selling it for parts, or the trash. So this tutorial comes handy for many people, it's just luck, 'cause finding a short is really complicated, and if we need to use a bga machine to test a faulty RSX or any bga issue, we're in troubles, right? Most people don't want to pay for a fix like this, and they're right, and maybe most technicians will avoid this console in particular..

EDIT: Btw @Yugonibblit, what tantalums are you using? Could you share some secret info? haha.
 
@Sabino Antonucci That's definitely a NEC issue, you should replace a few, or all of them if you are able to.

@Workz_777

"the more capacitors = the more it worked"

So we have now the first general rule for the NEC topic. Since you could tried a lot of brands and many designs, is nice to know that in this particular YLOD problem, the goal is just one: Putting some nice quality tantalums and trying to reach the correct capacitance to make the console boot, and from there, there's only extra-capacitance (+durability) for the console, 'cause we all know that capacitors lose capacitance with time. My question is, how many days did you try it with heave charge like TLOU? It's important, even for that mix with those MLCC.

@Blubberz Many people don't know anything about electronics, the little they know, they learnt it here in this thread by seeing experiments made by others, and they had to buy mininum stuff to perform this, and some could revive their consoles, and others couldn't, but it was that or selling it for parts, or the trash. So this tutorial comes handy for many people, it's just luck, 'cause finding a short is really complicated, and if we need to use a bga machine to test a faulty RSX or any bga issue, we're in troubles, right? Most people don't want to pay for a fix like this, and they're right, and maybe most technicians will avoid this console in particular..

EDIT: Btw @Yugonibblit, what tantalums are you using? Could you share some secret info? haha.
just so you know, if you edit a post the mentions quit working.
 
20200628_000406.jpg
@Sabino Antonucci That's definitely a NEC issue, you should replace a few, or all of them if you are able to.

@Workz_777

"the more capacitors = the more it worked"

So we have now the first general rule for the NEC topic. Since you could tried a lot of brands and many designs, is nice to know that in this particular YLOD problem, the goal is just one: Putting some nice quality tantalums and trying to reach the correct capacitance to make the console boot, and from there, there's only extra-capacitance (+durability) for the console, 'cause we all know that capacitors lose capacitance with time. My question is, how many days did you try it with heave charge like TLOU? It's important, even for that mix with those MLCC.

@Blubberz Many people don't know anything about electronics, the little they know, they learnt it here in this thread by seeing experiments made by others, and they had to buy mininum stuff to perform this, and some could revive their consoles, and others couldn't, but it was that or selling it for parts, or the trash. So this tutorial comes handy for many people, it's just luck, 'cause finding a short is really complicated, and if we need to use a bga machine to test a faulty RSX or any bga issue, we're in troubles, right? Most people don't want to pay for a fix like this, and they're right, and maybe most technicians will avoid this console in particular..

EDIT: Btw @Yugonibblit, what tantalums are you using? Could you share some secret info? haha.
I use old tantulum's 's from scrap ps3 and ps4 motherboards ! ...lol
 
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