PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[Revak3115]

Do you ever remember hearing the fan sound like a jet engine, like in the video? Or did the YLOD come out of left field with no warning symptoms of overheating? If it did, that could be a bad tokin, but more likely it's a BGA defect. The fact you can sometimes get it to stay on tells me that heat is warping the board enough to establish a mechanical re-connection of the solder balls, but it's .

I have to disagree here, While yes i do agree that BGA defects are extremely common on the COK-001/002 Mobo, the YLOD crashing at random is like a almost 100% guarantee its faulty NEC/TOKIN's. i have worked on over 25 COK-001/002 Mobos collectively and the systems that had random YLOD in XMB or just random YLOD in games etc have been NEC related every time, my go to fix is to piggy back tantalums on the existing NECs and that fixes the systems crashing & makes them run everything i throw at them, from TLoU,GT6,GTA5,etc you get the idea. the board is very thick, it takes at least 30 min of SYSCON to even get warm enough to start warping, Again this is all from my own experience with these systems, the YLOD crashing randomly in game or XMB is almost always NEC issues. now if your system is having random GLOD or artifacting then the NECs are not at fault here, which it doesn't sound like it for this particular case. even slow unresponsive XMB/Choppy or Slow performance can also be NEC related, i have had a few of those issues too. enough rambling xD

 

[Unrul3r]

Well then, my condolences. That's the dread YLOD!

A few more questions:

1. Do you ever remember hearing the fan sound like a jet engine, like in the video? Or did the YLOD come out of left field with no warning symptoms of overheating? If it did, that could be a bad tokin, but more likely it's a BGA defect. The fact you can sometimes get it to stay on tells me that heat is warping the board enough to establish a mechanical re-connection of the solder balls, but it's unstable hence the random YLOD.
2. What model of PS3 is it? CECHA01, B01, E01 & etc. It says under the barcode on the back of the console.
   
3. Is the warranty seal intact? There should be a tamper evident sticker above the hard drive cover on the bottom of the console. It's partially covering a rubber foot that conceals the security screw you must remove to open the console. If so, don't remove it. If it's an early model, the chances are you need a reball. Breaking this seal will hurt your chances of getting it repaired. Most shops rescind guarantees if the console has been previously worked on.

A console is worth more on ebay if the warranty sticker is intact, even if it has a YLOD. You may want to consider selling it and putting the proceeds (~$60 typically) toward a used working console. For reference, today I bought what looks like a sealed A01 for $45 (YLOD) and another described as "used tested" for $163. I had to employ some tricky search terms to find them that cheap, and who knows what I'll actually receive, but if they're not as described I can get my money back.

If the seal is broken, it may be worth more to you to try and work on it for fun. Just realize the chances of a lasting fix are extreemly slim.

1. No, never Jet engine. YLOD started one day out of the blue.
2. CECHC04
3. Its not intact. As I said previously, I re-flowed it and re-pasted it.

No, I'm not considering selling it. I want to give this a shot since the more I read the more it seems that the capacitors are at fault but I want to be as sure as possible its them (with no additional cost) before doing the procedure. You say it could be BGA defect, how would one diagnose that?

 

[Unrul3r]

I have to disagree here, While yes i do agree that BGA defects are extremely common on the COK-001/002 Mobo, the YLOD crashing at random is like a almost 100% guarantee its faulty NEC/TOKIN's. i have worked on over 25 COK-001/002 Mobos collectively and the systems that had random YLOD in XMB or just random YLOD in games etc have been NEC related every time, my go to fix is to piggy back tantalums on the existing NECs and that fixes the systems crashing & makes them run everything i throw at them, from TLoU,GT6,GTA5,etc you get the idea. the board is very thick, it takes at least 30 min of SYSCON to even get warm enough to start warping, Again this is all from my own experience with these systems, the YLOD crashing randomly in game or XMB is almost always NEC issues. now if your system is having random GLOD or artifacting then the NECs are not at fault here, which it doesn't sound like it for this particular case. even slow unresponsive XMB/Choppy or Slow performance can also be NEC related, i have had a few of those issues too. enough rambling xD

I see. Thank you for sharing your experience, Revak3115. That is helpful!

 

[squeept]

I haven't seen a cok-001 that randomly crashed in years because I have been reballing every one of them as a first step for years. Also still sitting at 3 bad TOKIN in about 125 fatties now. With your volume, you should consider getting an oscilloscope. One CECHA01 will pay for the Rigol.

I spent hours last night looking up precision optics and digging for prices on the inspection scopes. The lowest priced model that I would trust is $2500. I found 2mm prisms for $70. But... since I already have a very good microscope, all I really need is a mirror of the right size and angle. I think the prisms I bought were some kind of tempered glass, so they shatter too easily. A regular mirror and a fresh glass wheel for the Dremel and I think I can do it. So, I bought a couple of different cheap telescoping inspection mirrors that were $5 each on Amazon. If I can just get one ground down without shattering it....

 

[RIP-Felix]

...the YLOD crashing at random is like a almost 100% guarantee its faulty NEC/TOKIN's...

Spoiler: INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS

Saying things like this is what makes this thread so confusing for people. First it's what they want to hear, as typified by @Unrul3r hopefull response:

I see. Thank you for sharing your experience, Revak3115. That is helpful!

Why, because he told you what you wanted to hear? I don't see much reason for hope. I think that MOST of the time this tantalum thing doesn't last for people with BC models and that Reballs are inevitable. The chances of bad tokins being a thing on later model consoles is possable, so I do hold out hope for them, but I don't want to encourage this "I'm going to be the one who wins the lottery" thinking everyone has. Seriously, everyone thinks this BS. I see it all the time just driving down the road, with people carrying their speed believing they'll get lucky and the light will turn green just for them. It doesn't and they have to almost slam on their breaks. Or the virus wouldn't dare infect them, so they don't need to social distance or wear a mask. You don't get to choose to listen people who'll tell you what you want to hear, then expect reality to bend to your world view. And it's not so simple as saying, "Their either is a conspiricy and global coverup, or there isn't. You have bad tokens or you don't." There is usually more to it that we don't know. Maybe you have bad token and BGA defects. Maybe you only have BGA defect now, but the tokis are on their way out and die shortly after a reball. It's important to not talk in absolutes. Everything is shades of grey. People are ruining their consoles believing they'll get lucky, when they almost never do. It's called confidence bias, and it drives me crazy! The myth is perpetuated by posts like the one above. Sadly, wanting to believe something doesn't make it true. @Revak3115 if you want to prove the point show us a bad tokin. Otherwise we cannot be sure your success is more than just another false positive from mechanical BGA reconnection. "I did the tantalum thing, and it turned on" is not good enough. Certainly not if you plan to sell it!

In the words of senator Palpatine, "I can feel your anger." So before you go off, let me qualify my statements.
When I say, "I did the tantalum thing, and it turned on", I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm exaggerating for effect. I'm sure you do more thorough testing. Don't take it personally;p I'm not saying your experience isn't valuable, I'm just not convinced (because you haven't provided evidence besides anecdote) and I doubt it applies to all models of PS3. That's fair criticism. And to your point, @Unrul3r did say he "reflowed" it previously. It's certainly possible he fatally wounded a TOKIN with his heat gun special. I agree that could cause a random YLOD. However, he said he can get it to stay in the XMB only after a bit of trying. Then it would randomly crash within a few minutes. That signals to me that he needed to get the board warmed up before it would boot. That's why I said it sounded like a mechanical reconnection due to thermal warping. If it would start cold to XMB and always YLOD randomly, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. @Unrul3r may want to clarify.

Hopefully that alleviates some of your anger, but if you still want to get mad, do so over this statement. Anyone who plans on selling repairs should diagnose consoles using an oscilloscope instead of dowsing rods! Sure there is benefit to identifying common symptoms of consoles with bad tokins, but if you don't back it up with the scope, you may as well be claiming transmutation of lead into gold. An oscilloscope cuts right through the BS and gives you the cold hard facts. We need to raise this forum out of the dark age.

1. No, never Jet engine. YLOD started one day out of the blue.
2. CECHC04
3. Its not intact. As I said previously, I re-flowed it and re-pasted it.

No, I'm not considering selling it. I want to give this a shot since the more I read the more it seems that the capacitors are at fault but I want to be as sure as possible its them (with no additional cost) before doing the procedure. You say it could be BGA defect, how would one diagnose that?

It's actually good that you didn't hear a jet engine. That means you're not overheating. If it weren't for the fact you reflowed before, I would have said the BGA is probably fine. However, reflows are notorious for failing again. The question then becomes why.

• Did the tokins fail
• Did the BGA fail again
  
• Did the thermal sensor fail (fan didn't go berserk, so I don't think so)
• VRM, and so on.

The next step I would generally recommend is measuring the resistance between +/GND on the tokins. For example, Cell = 3.5Ohms and RSX = 3.6Ohms. This is a qualitative test, not diagnostic. It tends to indicate the general health of the chips and filtering circuit (not any one component). I think of it like a health meter. 3+ Ohms = 3 hearts (healthy), 1-2 Ohms = 2 hearts (aged, but okay), and 1 Ohm or less is dead or nearly dead. For reference I've seen a perfectly health and running console with 1.9Ohms. I attempted to reball a console that read ~2 ohms before and 3.5 afterwards. The reball failed, but the joints were solid. So when the solder is fresh, strong, and clean, ~3.5 Ohms is what you should expect to see. Perhaps higher if the console hasn't seen as much use (IDK what new chips read, but I suspect it was closer to 4). The other thing that it does is allow your to evaluate your work after the filter cap replacement. You need to do a good job and clean thoroughly. I've seen the resistance change as much as 1 ohm just by cleaning off flux residue!

Another thing you may want to consider, is performing the SYCON mod to get error codes that might help troubleshoot. The SYSCON requires a TTL Serial to USB adapter and some headaches to get working. Troubleshooting with the SYCON method is still guesswork. It's starting to provide insight into common problems and error codes associated with them, but nothing that definitively says, "yup, that's the tokins." Only an oscilloscope gives us that. If you don't have access to an oscilloscope to test the TOKINs, don't want to have it professionally repaired, and the SYSCON doesn't reveal anything obvious, then there's little else to try.

The tantalum's seem doable and relatively cheap, compared to sending it out for repair. If the console is already dead, there's nothing left to loose by trying (except $30-50 for the caps). So I totally understand where you are coming from. Go ahead an give it a try, but be aware that false positives after the mod are common. So if it works, there's no way of telling how long it'll last. Please don't be the guy who comes back and say's, "it worked, thanks! Felix is an idiot!", then never comes back to tell us if it YLOD again in 2 weeks. Hey if it works, great! I'd love to eat crow and be wrong. I want the myth to be true too...lol.

 

[Pacorretaco]

I have to disagree here, While yes i do agree that BGA defects are extremely common on the COK-001/002 Mobo, the YLOD crashing at random is like a almost 100% guarantee its faulty NEC/TOKIN's. i have worked on over 25 COK-001/002 Mobos collectively and the systems that had random YLOD in XMB or just random YLOD in games etc have been NEC related every time, my go to fix is to piggy back tantalums on the existing NECs and that fixes the systems crashing & makes them run everything i throw at them, from TLoU,GT6,GTA5,etc you get the idea. the board is very thick, it takes at least 30 min of SYSCON to even get warm enough to start warping, Again this is all from my own experience with these systems, the YLOD crashing randomly in game or XMB is almost always NEC issues. now if your system is having random GLOD or artifacting then the NECs are not at fault here, which it doesn't sound like it for this particular case. even slow unresponsive XMB/Choppy or Slow performance can also be NEC related, i have had a few of those issues too. enough rambling xD

I have to support @RIP-Felix s lack of conviction.

Mainly because of how easy it is to get false positives when messing with the Tokins. It just happens that the three major suspects for the YLOD are each very fiddly and all can behave rather unpredictably. So it's very easy to arrive at wrong conclusions and therefore exaggerate unfairly one of the three bad guys. In this 160 page long episode, The Bad, the NEC Tokin capacitors.

But it's obviously wrong to call anything a myth. All are known to be a possible cause. Tokins as well. Even if the evidence of many who have looked at this scientifically say it's under 10% of the instances. It's just very rare on the original fat models.
Very far from 90%. It's understandable that people get confused. Still waiting for the original post to be tuned, better late than never.

Now, It's no coincidence that we all want to believe in the Tokin Dogma because it's definitely the easier of the bad guys.

And being realistic I have to give credit where it's due.
Do as @Revak3115 says and try, as he called it, the piggyback thing. Add a capacitor to the existing tokin array, see if it gives a happy result.
Why? Mainly because this lottery ticket is reasonably cheap. You wouldn't have to break anything to test and it would be reversible.

But as with any lottery, don't get too excited. Even if it worked (it probably won't sorry) you wouldn't have enough confidence to say it was always the Tokins and therefore rest easy. Especially if reflow appeared to work in the past.

(This reminds me Btw I wouldn't recommend a preheater for messing with the tokins. Firstly because It's not needed. Just use an adequate or bigger tip on your soldering iron. There are other reasons that come to mind...)

If this additional capacitor test doesn't work, my advice for next step is, before doing anything else (like removing the old tokins, which most probably are fine)
Just bother yourself to do the SYSCON diagnosis crap. (You can expect an ugly but common 3034 for example, sadly)

I understand an oscilloscope is unrealistic for non professional environments. The ohms test felix mentioned is nice because it costs nothing. But it won't give you any answers. If it's more than 1 ohm it can be ok, (or not) hehehe.

Cheers, happy New Year and good luck

 

[Unrul3r]

Thank you both for all these suggestions and information! So I'll test the resistance on the capacitors and, since there is no loss in trying, I might as well piggyback some tantalums while I'm at it. I'm not sure when I'll do this. I still have to buy some good capacitors and wait for them to arrive. Do they have to have exactly 0.375 mOhm ESR rating or as close as I can buy? If not perfect, what would be an acceptable ESR rating?

As a side note, the first cold boot, was the console's longest boot without YLOD. I had it YLOD a few years back after the reflow and so I stopped using it for maybe 5 or 6 years. I took it out this last month and it lasted a few hours while gaming without YLOD. Then it started to YLOD again and now it doesn't stop. Yesterday it last a min or 2 on XMB after being some days off. Today, I let it sit 24h and it doesn't even reach XMB.

 

[Revak3115]

Spoiler: INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS

Saying things like this is what makes this thread so confusing for people. First it's what they want to hear

Spoiler: INFLAMMATORY STATEMENTS

i never said it was the fix, rather my own testing's from other systems that ive piggybacked or replaced altogether. i have a current A01 that crashes YLOD style 24/7 and when i get my tantalums in i will make a update if that works. im not saying my results are the way to go im just saying its a good idea to get those necs replaced or piggy backed if you have those issues. i have yet to see a system not work after doing said options with prior YLOD crashing. maybe im just extremely lucky with the NEC issues or im doing something right idk.

I haven't seen a cok-001 that randomly crashed in years because I have been reballing every one of them as a first step for years. Also still sitting at 3 bad TOKIN in about 125 fatties now. With your volume, you should consider getting an oscilloscope. One CECHA01 will pay for the Rigol.

maybe i will look into them, any links for yours that you have im interested? also i have limited resources so Reballing/BGA stations are out of the question rn unless theres good budget ones

 

[squeept]

@Revak3115 A few other users have some models that I'm unfamiliar with that may only be available used (and thus cheaper), but so far nobody has found a super cheap new one that we can guarantee works. I have a Rigol DS1054Z ($350 US on Amazon), and @RIP-Felix got one as well. It's been sufficient for anything I've ever wanted to do with it.

If you don't mind a 100 pound analog CRT screened behemoth, you could probably snatch up an old 50 MHz Tektronix or HP on craigslist or eBay for under $100.

 

[Revak3115]

@Revak3115 A few other users have some models that I'm unfamiliar with that may only be available used (and thus cheaper), but so far nobody has found a super cheap new one that we can guarantee works. I have a Rigol DS1054Z ($350 US on Amazon), and @RIP-Felix got one as well. It's been sufficient for anything I've ever wanted to do with it.

If you don't mind a 100 pound analog CRT screened behemoth, you could probably snatch up an old 50 MHz Tektronix or HP on craigslist or eBay for under $100.

also, what reball station do you have? i have no experience in that field at all and im interested in learning these things, especially for the failure ridden system like pre jasper 360, Bc ps3s

 

[squeept]

@Revak3115 I have an ACHI IR-PRO-SC. It's great because it's cheap and almost entirely made of "off the shelf" components so it can be infinitely repaired and modified. It was discontinued a few years ago, and I think it was replaced by the IR6500. Those can now be had for the ridiculously low price of like $500 US without any accessories. You'll want to immediately replace the thermocouples with genuine Omegas (nearly another $100 for 2, only buy direct from Omega or it will be counterfeit), but that's about all that's wrong with them.

Xenon and Zephyr are way more dead chip than BGA, but the later ones and slims are almost always BGA.

 

[RIP-Felix]

I second that Rigol scope. Best bang for buck period. I don't regret the purchase one bit.

I just want to clarify. When I say myth, I mean all the posts from overly exuberant tantalum dilettantes about how "reballing's a scam and it was the tokins all along." The idea that it works 100% of the time and that your BGA is probably fine. Let's be honest. The reason anyone cares about fat consoles is for PS2 BC, otherwise why care? Just get a slim or super slim for cheap! The fat consoles are the desirable consoles and the least reliable. They're worth the most on e-bay and can be flipped for bank if repaired. These are probably upwards of 90% all BGA failure, but the success of later models and false positives give rise to a myth - a false sense of hope. A large sector of onlookers desperate for any chance of resurrecting their beloved A, B, C, and E models see this thread and chase the red herring. Some posts are very misleading. Youtube is very misleading. It sets people up for disappointment. That's the myth I'm referring to.

I don't mean to say the thread isn't useful, or that the tokins don't go bad. They can and do go bad. It's just the percentage that's being debated, models that benefit, symptoms, and etc. I don't want to discourage anyone from learning to fix their consoles, I just want them to understand the need for measured approaches and expectations. The reason this thread is so long and has so much BS is because of DIYers who do the mod, get a false positive, post success, perpetuate the myth (BC console fix), and never return to tell us if/when it failed. And just because they don't return doesn't mean it lasted. They may have sold it, shelved it, or haven't played it much since. I have repeatedly asked people if the tantalum mod lasted and how much time they've put on console since. You would think they would pile on in droves if everyone was getting positive results. 2 or 3 people have come forward, but report success on later models, which is why I have softened my rhetoric on the chances of tokins going bad in them. It's anecdotally evidence, not oscilloscope measurements, but there may be something to it if that many consoles are having lasting fixes from cap replacements. But who really cares about G, H, J, K, L , M, P & Q models? Not most of the DIYer hoping to try this. They'd just buy a newer, more reliable model, unless there was something special about theirs. Either it's BC, sentimental, has all their saves, or they believe it's easy enough to attempt a DIY (which I would debate). So far I don't think anyone has reported lasting success on a BC model. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember anyone. It's certainly not very many.

 

[RIP-Felix]

Thank you both for all these suggestions and information! So I'll test the resistance on the capacitors and, since there is no loss in trying, I might as well piggyback some tantalums while I'm at it. I'm not sure when I'll do this. I still have to buy some good capacitors and wait for them to arrive. Do they have to have exactly 0.375 mOhm ESR rating or as close as I can buy? If not perfect, what would be an acceptable ESR rating?

As a side note, the first cold boot, was the console's longest boot without YLOD. I had it YLOD a few years back after the reflow and so I stopped using it for maybe 5 or 6 years. I took it out this last month and it lasted a few hours while gaming without YLOD. Then it started to YLOD again and now it doesn't stop. Yesterday it last a min or 2 on XMB after being some days off. Today, I let it sit 24h and it doesn't even reach XMB.

Start here (pg137) and read up to now. You'll see how I got so pessimistic. All your question will be answered.

I apologize in advance, this is going to be a long post:

The TL;DR:

• Anyone who says this is a 100% fix is wrong.
  
• Reballing is not a con.
  
• The NEC/TOKINs do fail.
  
• Low ESR of Tantalum caps matters.
  
• The current across the caps is no joke. More jumpers = safer.
  
• Total capacatitanc might mater, but dosen't "appear" to.
  
• Learn to properly Delid your CPU, make a tool, and do it before you turn your PS3 on again!!!
  
• Jailbreak and install webMAN for tighter fan control.

I have been investigating this repair myself for over a year. You can read about my adventure here. I am a hobbyist, not an electrical engineer! However, I have been diving deep into EE videos and technical documentation to try and understand what is really going on. To summarize my findings and experience:

PS3 #1 (CECHA01) has been through hell and is currently dead with a hard YLOD. However, before that the tant cap fix worked multiple times, and failed quickly afterwards due to various soldering mistakes (cold solder joints, not enough jumpers, flux/jumper wires causing bridging, not deliding the CPU IHS which was overheating and complicating things, etc.) In the process I learned how to solder properly to the motherboard and about the RLC circuit the NEC/TOKIN caps are part of.

• From carefully reading the schematic, this is an RLC power filter/decoupling circuit designed to provide derippled, decoupled, a clean +1.0v (CPU) and +1.2v (RSX). Here is a simplified schematic I made to make it easier to read, but it's not 100% accurate.
  
• The general rule is that using more capacitance if fine (as most of us have been assuming is the case). However, in RLC circuits the capacitance is important if you want to Pass or Stop a specific band (frequency range). Therefore it's possible that SONY engineers chose 4800uF for a reason. The RLC filter is needed because of the DC-DC switching voltage regulators that step the +12v main to 1-1.2v the chips drink. These regulators introduce noise that must be removed. It's most efficient to do so as close to the chip as possible, which explains the proximity of the NEC/TOKIN and the ceramics (CE in the pic above) to the chips. The RLC circuit SONY chose to employ does this very efficiently, but because of the inductor, it introduces resonance. Basically, capacitance could be important. I have not confirmed if the resonant frequency obtained by using 4800uF capacitance is important or not, and not sure how to. However, to remove the variable it is advisable to just match a replacement spec for spec.
  
• The amount of current that flows across these caps is large. I found this out the hard way (see pic below). A single AWG22 solid core conductor was inadequate and shorted! I also had trouble with shorting when they laid flat, because they ran over the GND rails. They would heat up, carbonize and short. So I had to go over the top, such that it was impossible to short. Keep this in mind. Below are pics from PS3#1, which didn't survive all the failed attempts and shorts.

• Something odd happened with PS3#1 above after all these repair attempts. The YLOD disappeared! Great, but artifacting would freeze the console within a few minutes of startup. That indicated an RSX issue that probably requires reball to fix. I attempted a reflow and it resulted in a GLOD! I attempted it again with more heat and proper flux, but the board warped on me and resulted in a hard YLOD. I intend to try a reflow and/or reball of both the CPU and RSX, but given how much the board warped, I doubt PS3#1 will survive. I'm still waiting on supplies and may revist it later, but my focus shifted to PS3#2.
  

• ESR is an important consideration in filter circuits. The lower the better. 4x NEC/TOKINs have a combined ESR of 0.375mOhms, so that's the target you should be looking to match. I found that 18x 270uF, 2.5v, 6mOhm Tantalum capacitors have the same total capacitance and a lower ESR. Therefore they are ideal for a CECHA01 as 1:1 replacement. I also chose these for their size, so that they are easier to solder in place, look clean, and can have the OG thermal tape replaced afterwards. I used hot air (380C) in my left hand to preheat the area while soldering the caps in using my iron (340C) in the right. I found it easier to use Kapton tape to hold the Cap in place. I installed 8x of these in place of one NEC/TOKIN for each the CPU and RSX on PS3 #2 (CECHA01), which was a hard YLOD. This console had not been previously worked on and appeared to be stock inside. I decided to leave 3x NEC/TOKINs in place, so I would not need to add jumpers. I delided the CPU/RSX and applied MX-4 TC. This fixed the YLOD and has been very stable about 24 hours of on-time. I jail broke it so I could install webMAN mod and see the temps (67C CPU, 58C RSX, Fan 33%, set point 68C). It's well controlled now and I'm confident that it's going to last, but that remains to be seen.

• Please note that the total capacitance that fixed PS3#2 is not known because I left the OG caps in place. 2160uF of added capacitance was adequate for this console, but if I were to replace all the NEC/TOKINs I'd have used 18 total per chip to match the OG spec. I didn't need to and adding jumpers is potentially problematic. Many people have has success going over 4800uF total capacitance, so it "apparently" doesn't matter.
• Lastly, you can't uses continuity buzzer to check your work. The normial resistance between +/GND rails is below the threshhold for most multimeters. I have measured it between 2.5-3.5ohms when the caps are properly installed. Be sure to thoroughly clean the area of flux after install, as I have noticed flux residues can decrease that resistance and cause a short.

I want to offer a hypothesis about the YLOD progression, based off my experience and that of others I've read:

1. After 2 years, SONY's cheap thermal grease begins to dry. An air gap forms in-between the IHS and the Die on the CPU and/or RSX. Since this is under the heat spreader, it's not easy to get to. Most people do not replace it. People usually only replace the thermal compound between the IHS and the Heatsink, but that's only half of the solution. It's helps lower temps, but doesn't prevent overheating. BOTH CPU and RSX need to be delided!
   
2. You start to notice the fan gets noisier. The SYSCON will pretty much allow the CPU/RSX to get to about 75C before the fan ramps into high gear. Above 70C is bad, so SONY's default fan control scheme is terrible. They obviously prioritized sound over longevity. The only way to change this is to Jailbreak the PS3. And it needs to be done. But if you don't change the thermal paste to restore thermal contact between the IHS and the die, then the chips overheat and the fan tries it's best to remove the heat. Of course this is a loosing battle because the chip is becoming increasingly insulated. I noticed this on my working PS3. After a few minutes the fan would ramp up to a noisy level. It still worked, so I assumed it was just the Hot running PS3 we all know and love. But that's not it. It's your fair warning of overheating! I delided the RSX, because it was easy, and not the CPU, because it was hard. I just delided it this week and the thermal greases was completely dried up. There was no direct contact anymore! This needs to be replace on every PS3 that hasn't had it done!
   
3. The excess heat places unnecessary strain on the NEC/TOKINs causing them to fail faster. They die and cause a YLOD. Or thermal cycling at temperatures above 75C places unnecessary stress on the BGA and causes fatigue fractures leading to a YLOD, before the Caps fail. Based on two consoles I've personally replace caps on, which is too small a sample size to draw definitive conclusions, I would say that the caps fail first more often.
   
4. People send their console in for a reball, which repairs the BGA. If the cause of the YLOD was the caps, the heat from the process often restore function to the NEC/TOKINS temporarily before they die again. This could explain some of the reballed consoles that YLOD again within a matter of months. Some repair shops don't remove the IHS during the reball. First this means it takes longer for them to heat up and be removed, which is harder on the chips and motherboard. Second, they did not fix what was causing the chips too overheat in the first place. So they will again overheat and cause another YLOD soon after the reball. Lastly, the heat that shorten the life of the NEC/TOKINS may not have killed them before the solder balls cracked and caused the YLOD. A reball my fix the console and it will run until the NEC/TOKINS finally die (which they are prone to anyway). This accounts for the rest.
   
5. Fed up, people sell their PS3 cheap on e-bay.
6. We install a tantalum caps to repair the consoles that do not have damaged solder balls. Deliding is still necessary to prevent excess heat and thermal stress that would eventually cause BGA damage. Combining these with a reball may provide a longer lasting repair, but placing that much heat on chips will shorten their life. So a reball should be avoided. The best way is to delid and cool the chips as soon as temps start to rise out of control. And a jailbreak with webMAN mod to monitor temps and tighten up the fan controls will help immensely.

 

[Revak3115]

I second that Rigol scope. Best bang for buck period. I don't regret the purchase one bit.

I just want to clarify. When I say myth, I mean all the posts from overly exuberant tantalum dilettantes about how "reballing's a scam and it was the tokins all along." The idea that it works 100% of the time and that your BGA is probably fine. Let's be honest. The reason anyone cares about fat consoles is for PS2 BC, otherwise why care? Just get a slim or super slim for cheap! The fat consoles are the desirable consoles and the least reliable. They're worth the most on e-bay and can be flipped for bank if repaired. These are probably upwards of 90% all BGA failure, but the success of later models and false positives give rise to a myth - a false sense of hope. A large sector of onlookers desperate for any chance of resurrecting their beloved A, B, C, and E models see this thread and chase the red herring. Some posts are very misleading. Youtube is very misleading. It sets people up for disappointment. That's the myth I'm referring to.

I don't mean to say the thread isn't useful, or that the tokins don't go bad. They can and do go bad. It's just the percentage that's being debated, models that benefit, symptoms, and etc. I don't want to discourage anyone from learning to fix their consoles, I just want them to understand the need for measured approaches and expectations. The reason this thread is so long and has so much BS is because of DIYers who do the mod, get a false positive, post success, perpetuate the myth (BC console fix), and never return to tell us if/when it failed. And just because they don't return doesn't mean it lasted. They may have sold it, shelved it, or haven't played it much since. I have repeatedly asked people if the tantalum mod lasted and how much time they've put on console since. You would think they would pile on in droves if everyone was getting positive results. 2 or 3 people have come forward, but report success on later models, which is why I have softened my rhetoric on the chances of tokins going bad in them. It's anecdotally evidence, not oscilloscope measurements, but there may be something to it if that many consoles are having lasting fixes from cap replacements. But who really cares about G, H, J, K, L , M, P & Q models? Not most of the DIYer hoping to try this. They'd just buy a newer, more reliable model, unless there was something special about theirs. Either it's BC, sentimental, has all their saves, or they believe it's easy enough to attempt a DIY (which I would debate). So far I don't think anyone has reported lasting success on a BC model. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember anyone. It's certainly not very many.

yeah i totally agree here with you. it's honestly so sad that the original systems are so damn unreliable. its made playing the ps3 a PTSD moment since im always expecting artifacts or some bs to happen.. even with the Delids etc i do on these systems i still dont like using them at all even when k know they're cool. back in Summer 2019 when this thread was born i remember being so excited and happy that my YLOD crashing CECHB01 could finally get fixed and it basically worked until i did all the NECs then from there until March of 2020 it was a painful and annoying rollercoaster ride and hindsight i probably ruined the BGA of the chips when i removed it from the heatsink since it had Arctic 5 paste and that stuff adheres really hard it is what it is. that system is gone now. now i have ALOT of BC systems at my disposal, the B01 from 2 years ago has taught me board level repairs etc, enough rambling lol. its really unfortunate that you must delid, reball, custom fanspeed etc to make the BC units run decently well. even then its still risky as they age the GPU die and other sensitive components just will fail naturally. really does suck and i hope intime we get a definitive fix or some sort of way to keep these things chugging for longer

 

[squeept]

I'm hoping everything we've learned with SYSCON in the mix now will really clear things up over time. The true numbers are coming slowly with everything we've added to the diagnostic arsenal lately. Historically, I expect any "general hardware fault" of uncertain nature to be roughly 1/3 dead RSX die or bumps, 1/3 RSX BGA, and 1/3 anything else. A little heavier on each RSX slice, a little lighter on the everything else.

My numbers are HEAVILY skewed towards backwards compatible models with a 90nm RSX, though, and I don't shy away from buying missing warranty seals and inventory from failed repair businesses.

 

[Unrul3r]

Start here (pg137) and read up to now. You'll see how I got so pessimistic. All your question will be answered.

Oof. I can understand. You just made me pessimistic. Haha. All this reading just made it seem like IF the NECs are at fault and I want to have a shot at good long-lasting fix I'll have to delid both RSX and Cell, replace the capacitors and hope I do a good enough job out of it. Plus the cost of the tantalums. I'm not sure the PS3 is worth all this effort unless I also had any pleasure in doing it which I don't. I'd be doing it for the hope of a successful long-lasting fix which probably is slim.

Well, thanks for the heads-up and for probably saving me a lot of headaches. I'll probably just let it gather dust then and emulate the games I want to play on the PC.

 

[Pacorretaco]

Oof. I can understand. You just made me pessimistic. Haha. All this reading just made it seem like IF the NECs are at fault and I want to have a shot at good long-lasting fix I'll have to delid both RSX and Cell, replace the capacitors and hope I do a good enough job out of it. Plus the cost of the tantalums. I'm not sure the PS3 is worth all this effort unless I also had any pleasure in doing it which I don't. I'd be doing it for the hope of a successful long-lasting fix which probably is slim.

Well, thanks for the heads-up and for probably saving me a lot of headaches. I'll probably just let it gather dust then and emulate the games I want to play on the PC.

Fair enough. You just had to tune your expectations, and you did. But now that you have your feet on the ground again you may be ready to try it anyway.
We didn't set out to make you pessimistic just for the sake of it.
As somebody said in the past (or the future?) It's not personal animosity, but Hegelian dialectic.
You need to clash all sides of the argument to arrive at the proper conclusion (synthesis).

Delid is eventually needed yes. Not that hard or risky, especially the CELL CPU. It's only dangerous if you try to do it with the wrong tool. But you can leave that aside for now and focus on fixing the console first. This is just long term preventative measure, and doing many things at once can make troubleshooting difficult.
In my opinion temperature is also overly exaggerated because it's easy to blame for everything. But it's not always so simple.
If you think about it, an overheating CELL is actually a wonderful way of protecting the rest of the components.
And it just so happens that in these models it's the first to overheat usually, needing delid badly. Yet they hardly ever fail themselves.
Maybe this topic could warrant another thread though.


I'd try the capacitor test. Maybe there's something to what @Revak3115 says as a way of spotting one of the unicorn 90nm PS3s which simply have capacitor problems.

The capacitor story itself may also be being subject to exagerated criticism not just because it doesn't work or is hard to do right, but because most of the times is being attempted when its not the problem in the first place. (It very rarely is)
So many who didn't get it working it's not because they did it wrong, but because they were doing the wrong thing.

I bet, if you find one of the rare cases where it's a simple lack of capacitance (which is easier said than done), the requirements for the machine working again are not strict at all. A random capacitor may fit the bill.

But yea, that's the problem with these consoles. They were never reliable in the first place. Sadly I don't think I would enjoy it as much, playing on one of these magnificent consoles, but knowing it's almost a miracle it's up and running. You also have to enjoy the troubleshooting yes.

Meanwhile I already beat MGS3 (ps3 version of a great ps2 game) again on the L model I revived in October I think.
And a good part of Demon's souls for the first time hehehe. (Remember it's a ps3 game, not ps5)
Netemu is not even that bad. Shame about the peripheral and network support though, that's where the fancy ones shine.

We'd all be happy to see your C model working again

Cheers
But yes that's the problem with these machines. They were never reliable.

 

[RIP-Felix]

@Unrul3r Yeah, I may have laid the pessimism on a little thick. Sorry. I just wanted you to know what your're getting into.

You can still probe the tokins and get the resistance readings. Also, you should try the piggyback method. If there's a bad cap it might allow your console to boot. I wouldn't recommend starting off by removing a tokin, but the piggyback method is easy and reversible. It doesn't require much heat, so shouldn't warp the board. If there's a BGA defect, this method has the smallest chance of giving false positives. The way you describe your console and the history you've told us does indeed sound like there's a chance your tokins are failing. If a tokins is bad, it'll spoil the bunch. Adding a tantalum will not fix it long term and it'll fail again. The bad cap has to go. It's not easy to figure out which one it is. So you'll have to replace all of them or the repair wont last. That is invasive and hard, but doable if you up for a challenge! So don't give up just yet.

You should at least consider the SYSCON. It's a cheap, fun, and could help out the community.

So come on buddy, give us another chance! I didn't mean to dishearten you. It can still be fun just to dink around with the console. Maybe you get lucky. Stranger thing have happened. Just don't expect it. That's all.

 

[Unrul3r]

@Unrul3r Yeah, I may have laid the pessimism on a little thick. Sorry. I just wanted you to know what your're getting into.

You can still probe the tokins and get the resistance readings. Also, you should try the piggyback method. If there's a bad cap it might allow your console to boot. I wouldn't recommend starting off by removing a tokin, but the piggyback method is easy and reversible. It doesn't require much heat, so shouldn't warp the board. If there's a BGA defect, this method has the smallest chance of giving false positives. The way you describe your console and the history you've told us does indeed sound like there's a chance your tokins are failing. If a tokins is bad, it'll spoil the bunch. Adding a tantalum will not fix it long term and it'll fail again. The bad cap has to go. It's not easy to figure out which one it is. So you'll have to replace all of them or the repair wont last. That is invasive and hard, but doable if you up for a challenge! So don't give up just yet.

You should at least consider the SYSCON. It's a cheap, fun, and could help out the community.

So come on buddy, give us another chance! I didn't mean to dishearten you. It can still be fun just to dink around with the console. Maybe you get lucky. Stranger thing have happened. Just don't expect it. That's all.

Well, you told me to read the thread after your post and many of the posts gave me the impression I wrote above. So, the pessimism is warranted. Also paying 40-50€ for the capacitors weigh on me. In the beginning I was hoping to buy some cheap ones but the low ESR rating requirement seems to pull the price to that 40-50€ range which makes it even more uncomfortable.

As I said in the previous post, I don't enjoy tinkering with electronics. I only do it to because it can be cheaper than most of the alternatives and because of the end result (having devices that work again). All of the process in between is cumbersome and not enjoyable for me. If I had any pleasure, I'd definitely buy the capacitors and invest a bit in understanding the PS3 but I only wanted a cheap way of having working PS3.

Thank you (and all the other folks) for all the information, suggestions and encouragement provided. All of it helped me make a more informed decision.

 

[RIP-Felix]

Yeah, sounds like you're best bet is to save up for another console. Sorry. I'm glad to hear I saved you the time and money though!