PS3 My fat CECHE01 gave me a YLOD but it is working fine right after

Discussion in 'General PS3 Discussion' started by Gabriel2Silva, May 11, 2019.

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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    Edit 1: Takes a post from Naked_Snake1995 to teach Naked_Snake1995.

    Edit 2: Tested 10 PSUs the problem persisted, if the PSU was dead,the PS3 would even boot!

    Edit 3: No its not a PSU issue, because these PSUs arent cheap crap like "cough cough Mamãesoft cough cough" :)

    Edit 4: Mate, get this, the PS3 its burning inside,when you bought it brand new, the more you use the more the caps loose theyre capacitance,simple as that!

    Remember the CECHK and L Models when the PS3 would have premature YLOD, and everyone was pointing fingers to the PSU,when in reality it wasnt? I sure do

    Conclusion back to square zero,but at least give this man a round of applause for trying.

    tenor.gif
     
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    jcorrea

    jcorrea PSX-Place Supporter

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    Don't be rude. I was not trying to teach you anything, I was just trying to help. Writing like this you are just being disrespectful.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    You are absolutely right, my apologies, this topic its getting so out of hand that my brain its getting a midlife crisis, with all this PSU talk

    Tell you what, you advise a PSU replacement, i advise a capacitor replacement, let him do both and test them, to see if at least we get to the bottom of this case
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    Interesting. Replacing a power supply is definitely easier than replacing SMD capacitors. I'm still blaming the TOKINs though. What exactly makes you think it's a PSU issue? I can try to get a compatible model with my CECHE variant although it would be kind of a pain tbh.

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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    APS-226 or APS-231,both will work,but i am 99.97% confident that the issue will presist,but you can always try :)

    Brasil uses 110V as the US,if so APS-226 its your only choice, 231 its Bi-Volt, meaning it supports both 110~220V without a need of a stepdown convertor.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    No these capacitors arent hard to repalce, you simply need to desolder the old NEC and replace them with 4 Tantalums for each NEC, i advise you to get 470uF at 2.5V,but 6.3V works as well, make sure they are rated not operational voltage :)

    If you are unsure you can get the NECs off,solder the Tantalums in parallel, into they´re respective connection points, works as well, although ive removed mine completely, replace just one, or ask a professional to do it, if you are still afraid, dont forget to isolate it with electical tape :)

    If you solder in parallel, the end result should be something like this.

    tumblr_od4awh9UdO1vftfyjo1_1280.jpg
     
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    @Naked_Snake1995 you are getting obsesed with the tokins as i mentioned in other post :P
    @jcorrea is right, the PSU's wears out with the use, actually what they does is to lower his output watts, as example in a PC PSU if it was originally 700W after some years of use it will be 600W
    There is also an effect named "voltage riddle" and interferences that makes all power lines unestables and causes random power cuts
    Also, the capacitors inside the PSU (sometimes this can be verifyed visually because becomes "bulky", explodes at top, of leaks acid at bottom)
    So... is needed to check the PSU first... and the only easy way to do it is by replacing it

    @Gabriel2Silva take a read at the link to connect an ATX PSU to the PS3... it needs some tweaking of wires (and be careful to not make shorts) but is easy and is "free" because is just a temporal test, you can take the ATX PSU from other PC you have at home temporally

    The fan speed you are using is insane... it has been confusing me since your first posts of this thread, you said you was running it at 95% or 100% speed ?... im imagining the PS3 levitating like a quadcopter !!!
    With that fan speeds is hard to get an idea of what is happening in CELL/RSX, and your temperature meassures could be erroneous

    The first test you should do is to configure the fan speed into some normal speed... and report back the CELL/RSX temperatures in different workload scenarios (all them starting from ambient)
    -idle in xmb after 15 minutes
    -idle inside a low graphics workload game (or inside a homebrew, there are some that displays the temperature on real time, so you can take notes in a .txt) after 30 minutes
    -full graphic load inside a game while triggering the "temperature peaks" (GTAV with a waterbike navigating in circles and spinning the camera in the opposite direction... or... the last of us in the only 2 areas of the game with water)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    jcorrea likes this.
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    sandungas

    sandungas Moderator Developer

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    That photo of the "fix" is superclean :encouragement: but there are a couple of solder points that are risky
    [​IMG]
    In the other solder points doesnt happens that, but in that corner there is a voltage line too much close to the ground layer... the only thing that "isolates" one from the other is the painted green layer of epoxy/varnish
    If you use a multimeter you could check if are touching the other... but anyway... i dont like it at all, personally i would not afford that risk

    Instead of that... not sure what i would do, maybe an small wire or place the tantalum cap on top of the tokin and create like a "colum" with the solder "ball"
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    I'm using webman-MOD dynamic fan control. That's a CECHE01 unit whose thermal grease was replaced for CoolerMaster Extreme Fusion X1 3 to 4 years ago.

    In the dynamic fan control settings, I've selected 64°C to be the max temperature. So webman tries to maintain these values but sometimes and notoriously in some specific games the fans does go nuts in order to do so. The Last of Us is the prime example here. In that game, during the prologue screen with car crashes, explosions and lots of character models, the fan speeds does in fact reach 95%. And yes, the PS3 looks like a jet plane taking off, but still, the temperatures stay in the 64°C I've setup. It isn't like it's running at 95% all the time, it only reaches this kind of number in TLOU and in other games it stays on the 50~60% mark. It is still loud, but not nearly as loud as 95%. I can take it.

    I could definitely disable the dynamic fan control and let SYSCON control my fans, but I'm honestly scared to do so since without the fan control my temperatures go all the way up to 75°C. This doesn't look safe to me, especially on a early phat model like mine. I'm confident that without the fan control it'll reach absurd levels of heat in no time, and I can't even imagine how absurd it would get in a game like TLOU that likes to strangle my console.

    I am in fact curious to see if letting SYSCON do its thing to my fans will actually make the system run stable. Hotter, but stable. There is definitely some correlation between the fan speed and the crashes here, because like I've said, they happened when the fans were at their loudest. In GOW3 they weren't even close to 95% but it still crashed when they were at their loudest.

    Also, repeating what I've said before, in a much less demanding game for the GPU and probably the CPU (Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, a PSP Remaster game) it NEVER crashes. The fan speeds on this game never goes beyond 40% though. In Metal Gear Solid 2 HD Edition it also didn't crash, but the fans also did not ever went beyond the 40~45% mark. It's only on these games notorious for making your PS3 fans scream that it happens.

    I'll try to find another PSU. There's a dude near my house that used to service video-game consoles, there's a possibility that he has a YLOD'd or even working phat PS3. In fact I know he does, I just hope it's one of the models that share the PSU my CECHE can use.

    I honestly still think it's a TOKIN problem, but because it is the most difficult and intrusive step to do, I'll try to rule out the easy things first, like changing the PSU.

    Thanks again for all your help.

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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    i wouldn't even rule out that just because you've set that fan profile system didn't overheat and shut itself off,and clearly all heating problems you'll solve by deliding.if that friend is or was decent repair man he should be able to delid it pretty easily.caps changing is more advanced repair,and i'd try to find a really good professional for that.
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    I can delid too. I actually remember having delidded the GPU on this very same PS3. I was a starter at that time and I can't remember if my thermal paste installation was correct, though, especially below the RSX IHS. I should try repasting it in the near future.

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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    that would be my first thing to check,before anything else.it's crucial to use best thermal compound possible especially between the chip itself and IHS.
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    @sandungas

    Tried disabling webman dynamic fan control setting. SYSCON ran my fans at 20% and the console quickly built up to 72°C on the Cell by idling at the XMB. I'm starting to think there's something wrong with my thermal paste installation in the past. Is it normal for a first generation fat to run THIS hot by doing nothing on the XMB?

    By the way, the Cell is way hotter than the RSX. When idling at the XMB (SYSCON fans) the RSX stays cool at the 60°C range. Cell goes nuts and I know that if I didn't shut it down it would've reached 80°C lol. That's not safe

    Now I don't remember having delidded the Cell, especially because it's freaking hard to do so. I'm also not willing to do it, and if I really need to, I would use some kind of fishing line in order to saw the IHS glue.

    By the way, something funny happened and the console gave me the three beep flashing red light crash by saving my webman options and doing the webman soft restart. It was like, I saved my settings, webman gui gave me the "restart" option, and as soon as I clicked, the console gave me three blinking red lights like all the other crashes I had.

    It booted fine right after.

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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    Keep in mind that it was the first time after replacing my thermal paste that this console has reached such high temperatures. Even though it always ran at insane fan speeds, especially when gaming, it never went beyond the 68°C mark. So even if it has a bad thermal paste installation, it shouldn't have suffered from heat damage. At least that's what my common sense says.

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    umart666

    umart666 Senior Member

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    cell can withstand bigger temps,rsx is critical,anything beyound 68c is known to be very bad for the chip.nobody can tell you exact issue by that symptoms only,it could very be due to temps,caps,psu,software or combination of those things.all you can do is eliminate one by one and give that systems some maintenance.

    and yes,you have high temps more than usual,if i remember correctly my cechc before delid was in 60's idle and was cooking in games and that was well worn out system.
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    Repasted it. Thermal grease installation was fine. Very well applied I would say.

    Cleaned and changed the paste in both chips, then below the RSX IHS (the IHS came out by itself when pulling the fan from the motherboard). Quality compound - CoolerMaster Mastergel Maker Nano.

    What's happening now:
    It boots. Green light, then webman loads (yellow light from webman blinks). REBUG logo shows. Fans keep going increasingly loud really fast, then the console shows the YLOD, beeps three times and blinks red.

    What could've gone wrong? Not a BGA problem because the console boots. The fans kick out and it goes loud, then it YLODs before I can even choose my profile.

    EDIT:

    Not my video, but this is pretty much what happens. It boots and show video normally, it just YLODs before I can choose my profile.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    That means the IHS are not properly aligned, its quite a pain in the arse to align,but its fairly easy once you get the hang of it, align it with the heatsink, not with the CPU or the GPU.

    Watch for any burn marks on the Heatsinks, it should be a square line, you want to align them precisely, and you put it back on, try not to move the heatsink too much, one little bump,and its back to square zero :)
     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    Thanks for the quick reply. I was kinda panicking. I really hope that is the issue. Will disassemble the console and be back in 30min max.
     
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    Naked_Snake1995

    Naked_Snake1995 Senior Member

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    No worries, ill just leave this for reference,so you can have an idea of what we are talking about

     
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    Gabriel2Silva

    Gabriel2Silva Forum Noob

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    Hey. The thermal paste spread on the RSX side was really a little bit strange. I took some pictures so you can give your opinion.
    https://imgur.com/gallery/krTptr9

    I'm reinstalling everything now. I'm just kinda confused on how I will place this IHS perfectly on its place, but let's see.
     

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