PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

[demetris]

You can measure the tokin directly from the motherboard if it has it's capacitance in the proper specs +/- 20% usually. Check for some cheap inline measure equipment usually based on atmega chips (AVR transistor tester)

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[SneakyKreiger]

Hello all!

I've read through this entire thread, & bought some caps to try on my CECHA01.
Replaced x2 NEC's (x4 Tantalum's) on the RSX & x2 NEC's (x4 Tantalum's) on the Cell on the top of the board,
My caps are D477 6.3V 470UF. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889717914.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2d0e4c4dXJIsoZ

I soldered the caps onto my board and i'm confident in the soldering work,having done previous console repairs & soldering.

My YLOD has made progress from 3-5 secs. to much more delayed. It boot's regularly now, however some boot's i can get to the dashboard (GUI?). Then after a random amount of time. It will intermittently YLOD. And here in-lies my curiosity. So i have a few questions if i may?

1- I've heard about people saying something about a short on the power rails?! Could someone point me to a source to read about this so i can get a better understanding of this issue/failure?

2- Am i able to remove all but 1 of NEC's on the board? Such as top&bottom together?
Ideally if my logic is correct,I'm planning to replace the all NEC's on the bottom of the board except for 1.

3- If i'm able to leave just 1 NEC, Do i need to solder on a bridge wire? IF so what gauge wire is usable?
I have some spare PSU power wire i can use. 18AWG Wire,i believe?

4- If i get to the point of having all NEC's replaced and my YLOD still persist's , is a reball/new GPU in order?
My picture displays good when it's up, but i'm curious if the substrate is gone or not.

Anyway thanks for listening , i'll await your reply's
Thanks again!

 

[demetris]

Hello all!

I've read through this entire thread, & bought some caps to try on my CECHA01.
Replaced x2 NEC's (x4 Tantalum's) on the RSX & x2 NEC's (x4 Tantalum's) on the Cell on the top of the board,
My caps are D477 6.3V 470UF. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889717914.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2d0e4c4dXJIsoZ

I soldered the caps onto my board and i'm confident in the soldering work,having done previous console repairs & soldering.

My YLOD has made progress from 3-5 secs. to much more delayed. It boot's regularly now, however some boot's i can get to the dashboard (GUI?). Then after a random amount of time. It will intermittently YLOD. And here in-lies my curiosity. So i have a few questions if i may?

1- I've heard about people saying something about a short on the power rails?! Could someone point me to a source to read about this so i can get a better understanding of this issue/failure?

If you had a short you wouldn't be able to power on at all.

2- Am i able to remove all but 1 of NEC's on the board? Such as top&bottom together?
Ideally if my logic is correct,I'm planning to replace the all NEC's on the bottom of the board except for 1.

You need to leave 1 for Cell and 1 for RSX or else you need the wire jumper in Vin-Vout

3- If i'm able to leave just 1 NEC, Do i need to solder on a bridge wire? IF so what gauge wire is usable?
I have some spare PSU power wire i can use. 18AWG Wire,i believe?

Answered above

4- If i get to the point of having all NEC's replaced and my YLOD still persist's , is a reball/new GPU in order?
My picture displays good when it's up, but i'm curious if the substrate is gone or not.

If still it doesn't work you can either replace the tantalums with brand new tokins and test your luck or trash it.

Anyway thanks for listening , i'll await your reply's
Thanks again!

 

[veggav]

You can measure the tokin directly from the motherboard if it has it's capacitance in the proper specs +/- 20% usually. Check for some cheap inline measure equipment usually based on atmega chips (AVR transistor tester)

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if I'm going to take apart the entire ps3 to be able to reach the capacitors I rather already replace those.

You may find this ridiculous but I find more dificult to take the ps3 apart and put it the same way back together than replacing the caps.

 

[marciolsf]

@demetris @nCadeRegal thanks for the suggestions and feedback! I'm usually pretty decent at soldering, but this is my first time doing surface mount, and I have some ways to go I installed that yellow wire because I was having a difficult time connecting the + on that tantalum to the + rail, so I used the wire to make my own bridge. I'm going to pick up a better tip for my soldering station and try again.

I still have 2 spare tantalums (for a grand total of 10 on hand), so which arrangement of capacitors would be ideal?

• rsx tokin #1 - 4 tantalums
• rsx tokin #2 - 3 tantalums
• cell tokin #1 - 3 tantalums

OR

• rsx tokin #1 - 3 tantalums
• rsx tokin #2 - 3 tantalums
• cell tokin #1 - 4 tantalums

I would suggest two things.
- replace the second tokin on the rsx side with tantalums
- remove that yellow wire and make sure the tantalums on it from - side are not touching the + on motherboard
I'm thinking either way would be fine, as far as total capacitance goes: each tokin was only providing ~1200mf, and 3 tantalums provide 1410mf (so that's plenty), but I'm wondering if it would be "safer" to have a matching number of capacitors for each tokin replaced. Or am I overthinking this?

@marciolsf I would check and redo your solder work. Most failed installs here were from poor solder work. Also that jumper wire is really rough looking and I though snake said it is only needed when all tokins are removed not just one side.

@marciolsf I would check and redo your solder work. Most failed installs here were from poor solder work. Also that jumper wire is really rough looking and I though snake said it is only needed when all tokins are removed not just one side.

 

[demetris]

3 X 470uf should do it just fine but if you happen to have more tokins fail on the same line you might need 4X to cover the other faulty ones as you need 1200uf x 4 = 4800uf each

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[marciolsf]

3 X 470uf should do it just fine but if you happen to have more tokins fail on the same line you might need 4X to cover the other faulty ones as you need 1200uf x 4 = 4800uf each

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4800uf for the rsx and 4800uf for the cell? I thought that's what it was, but I wasn't finding the number.

 

[Festiva]

Wanted to post my results. I replaced 2 of the capacitors under the RSX chip with 8 total 470uF capacitors. It was honestly a lot harder then I anticipated, and my soldering of the capacitors wasn't great, but wasn't horrible either. It got rid of the YLOD and seems to be working fine. I haven't tried playing any games on it since I will be re-soldering the capacitors so it closes properly. I also destroyed a couple of the SMD capacitors that would be under the RSX, it seems to boot fine without them, but I guess I'll see if it causes any issues.

Spoiler

 

[Edwired]

That the same problem I ran into on the cell chip them small smd cap I knocked off about 5 or 6 without noticing that on the second ps3 I attempted to repair but failed on that then the next two ps3 I ended up doing the same thing

 

[Shinichi Kudo]

Yes, they're high speed, low ESR filter caps to filter transient voltages from switching power supplies. The larger spikes you're seeing (much clearer on the CPU images) are each time it switches. The results here are exactly what one would expect: the noise gets bigger the more capacitance we remove. That's not why I'm showing the images, though. I wanted to provide a reference set of healthy, fully functional TOKIN performance images for others to compare their systems against to figure out if there is any problem with the TOKINs. I verified the set of reference images were consistent against another CECHE01 and a CECHA01 that are fully functional after reballs, surviving stress testing and GT6 / TLOU play. We now have a simple, quick method to prove your TOKINs are fine using only one piece of common equipment. The rest of the images are because we want to know just how bad things can get before there are any issues.

Here is 2 TOKINs each removed from the RSX and CELL. 50% total TOKIN capacitance gone. Running GT6 fine again:

CELL idling with 2 missing TOKIN. Pretty ugly, but still working fine. Note that I'm at 200mv/div now. Appears contained within an 80mv window, but the spikes are massive. Over 200mv each direction.

CELL running GT6. I did not get these backwards or change the amplitude. It got better under load this time. Guessing at this result is above my pay grade.

And with 50% of the total TOKIN capacitance pining for the fjords, everything still runs perfectly.

How did you get the PS3 running with those voltage probes attached to it? IIRC I had to put the metal shields back on the motherboard to install the heatsink, and those block everything.

 

[marciolsf]

Feels like I'm getting there! I've replaced 3 of the top-side tokins (2 of the rsx and 1 of the cells), and re-did all of the solder joints, and now it takes 1-2 seconds longer before it fails again.

I plan on doing the other cell, as well as the 4 tokins on the bottom side, but Im out of tantalums and I'm moving soon, so I'll probably wait until I'm settled before I order another set. Here's hoping...

 

[SiegHart93]

Wanted to post my results. I replaced 2 of the capacitors under the RSX chip with 8 total 470uF capacitors. It was honestly a lot harder then I anticipated, and my soldering of the capacitors wasn't great, but wasn't horrible either. It got rid of the YLOD and seems to be working fine. I haven't tried playing any games on it since I will be re-soldering the capacitors so it closes properly. I also destroyed a couple of the SMD capacitors that would be under the RSX, it seems to boot fine without them, but I guess I'll see if it causes any issues.

Spoiler

View attachment 21865

Bro did u welded the tantalum capacitors inverted ? because as seen in ur photo the positive pole of the tantalums are welded in the negative rails and the negative pole are welded in the positive rails plus the missing tiny capacitors under the RSX. How ur ps3 is being able to boot? that's pretty impressive hehe

 

[wrx884]

I also destroyed a couple of the SMD capacitors that would be under the RSX, it seems to boot fine without them, but I guess I'll see if it causes any issues.
]

They will just act as filters so it will probably be only when u start playing games u might see some issues. Good thing is the schematics tell us the value of all those tiny caps so u can replace them easy enough which i would be doing when u open it up again to turn those tantalum caps around since its working.

 

[Shinichi Kudo]

I found a detail here
https://www.nec.com/en/global/techrep/journal/g09/n01/pdf/090119.pdf
for another capacitor by NEC that details how temperature affects ESR.

This other document describes how the Proadlizer is constructed:
https://www.nec.com/en/global/techrep/journal/g06/n05/pdf/t060514.pdf

The Proadlizer does not have wet electrolyte (but does have silver paste?) so this theory (which the first paper also admits is only a theory) can't explain everything. But it is still possible that prolonged exposure to 70-80C can change the shape of something enough that properties other than the capacitance change.

It should be noted that the ESR (Equivalent Series Resist-ance) characteristic rises and its variance increases after re-flow. This trend is more noticeable when the reflowtemperature is high ( Fig. 4 ).The mechanism of the ESR variation before and after re-flow is assumed to be as follows ( Fig. 5 ).
1)The reflow applies high heat to the product.
2)The application of high heat vaporizes the electrolytesolution in the basic cells and causes thermal expansion.
3)The thermal expansion of the gas increases the internalpressure of the product.
4)The rise in the internal pressure curves the exterior com-ponent and causes plastic deformation.
5)The product cools down after completion of reflow.
6)The cooling liquefies the vaporized electrolyte solutionand returns it to the original liquid phase.
7)Liquefaction of the electrolyte solution decreases the in-ternal pressure of the product.
8)Meanwhile, the exterior component retains a plastic-de-formed shape even after cooling, so the contact pressurebetween the basic cells and the exterior component is re-duced.
9)The reduction of the contact pressure increases the ESR.

 

[eddo_tz]

Hello everyone. I've got an unusual problem I'd like some hepl with. I replaced the first nec with 4 tantalums, tested it and it was fine. I then decided to go ahead and replace the second one and my console never booted again. It turns on and it stays on for as long as I keep it on but there is no video or audio on the tv. Anyone know why? I bought 100 tantalums so I do have the resources to try as many configurations as it takes but I'd rather not replace evetything if I don't need to. I have tryed unsoldering one tantalum from nec 2 but it was the same. I haven't tryed replacing any bottom necs or any cpu necs only the 2 from the top side rsx. Thanks in advance for any help

 

[marciolsf]

Hello everyone. I've got an unusual problem I'd like some hepl with. I replaced the first nec with 4 tantalums, tested it and it was fine. I then decided to go ahead and replace the second one and my console never booted again. It turns on and it stays on for as long as I keep it on but there is no video or audio on the tv. Anyone know why? I bought 100 tantalums so I do have the resources to try as many configurations as it takes but I'd rather not replace evetything if I don't need to. I have tryed unsoldering one tantalum from nec 2 but it was the same. I haven't tryed replacing any bottom necs or any cpu necs only the 2 from the top side rsx. Thanks in advance for any help

Did you check if anything else is responding? Can you connect a controller via Bluetooth? I'd also try to do a video reset (I can't remember the exact steps right now... Hold the power button until it powers up, remove your finger, then push it down again? Something along those lines)

 

[Edwired]

The video reset is you press and hold the power button it will turn on then shut off with a beep then again press and hold power button till you hear a beep then a double beep that tells you that either av or hdmi is waiting to be connected

 

[oliver76]

So I stumbled across this fix on you tube by a user my mate vince. I have a modded cecha unit that developed the ylod a year ago so i dug it out and did the 2 rsx chips on the top of the board first. Bingo.. came to life. Let the kids play motorstorm(which ever one is split screen) for hours.. no hiccups. I went to test another random game and 5 minutes in got beep and shutdown with flashing red light. Tried again and same result. So i then tore it back down and did the 2 cell chips on the top of the board and now im back to ylod.TRore it down checked soldering... tested a few things with ohm meter and soldiered in a jumper wire on the cell... same thing. Any ideas.. thanks!

 

[eddo_tz]

The video reset is you press and hold the power button it will turn on then shut off with a beep then again press and hold power button till you hear a beep then a double beep that tells you that either av or hdmi is waiting to be connected

Yeah I forgot to mention tryed everything I could think of (no hdd, no dvd, no wifi/bluetooth, any combination of all of those etc.), nothing gets it to give video or audio. One thing I didn't try is to connect the controller and now that I tryed it doesn't seem to put anything to usb ports. Controller doesn't respond at all when I plug it in and than turn on the console. BTW the console model nimber is CECHG04 and the tantalums are the exact same ones my mate vince used in that video this other guy was mentioning.

 

[Edwired]

How many tans cap did you put on the board?