PS3 (Research/Experimental) - NEC/TOKIN Capacitors Replacement - YLOD

Rezendes said:
Hello, currently attempting this fix on my YLOD CECHA01 fat ps3 with no luck. I have tried replacing the power supply with a known good psu as well. I removed 4 of the NEC capacitors on one side of the board (side without the cpu/gpu) and placed 16 of the tantalum 470uF 6v diagonally as the guide suggests. No change in the instant ylod. I am trying to figure this out so right now I have all the tantalums removed and did my best to clean up the pads. the Positive and Negative pads are shorted from all points, all pads have continuity, is this supposed to be this way? Remember, I still have the other 4 NEC caps on the other side of the board (with cpu/gpu). Is there a way I can test the still present NEC caps on the other side? I have no more tantalums to replace those with currently, I will likely order more when I can.
Click to expand...

I noticed you said, "instant ylod ".
Was it "instant" before attempting the repair?
An instant ylod may be a different issue than the 3-5second ylod, from what I have read earlier in these posts.
If it is instant AFTER repair, it must not be soldered correctly, or maybe something is shorted from the power rail to ground as @Moltiplier had asked me as well.

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@Beanerman I take back what I said about checking for shorts. After looking at the closer at the MOSFETs used in the power circuit and remembering other people commenting on shorting, I realized something very important. The MOSFETs are depletion mode meaning they will always short to ground when they aren't powered. The datasheet linked below confirms it with the symbols used, and my PS3 measures about 4 ohms.

Power chip: https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/Infineon PDFs/IP2003APbF.pdf

@Naked_Snake1995 Yeah, i thought it a bit irrational to completely eject the Toshiba laptops when there is a possibility that the problems with them and the PS3 could be related. Possible evidence shouldn't be dismissed based on opinion alone.

With the story about heating the capacitors, I will urge caution because correlation doesn't always equal causation. Squeept is correct when he says that heating the board could connect the solder balls, but I think you are also correct in thinking that heating the capacitors could temporarily restore them.

I hope people keep reporting their findings, and even though it won't be a true statistical analysis, could give an idea of how common each problem is. I would like to see an analysis where a set of random ylod ps3s are analyzed with xrays and measurements on the capacitors with little bias, but I know that isn't realistic with the ps3 being sever years out of production.
 
Thank you @Moltiplier.
I put protection on the board, hooked up power supply to try to test connections.
Got power to things that hold current, like power led and such, so I am at a loss.
Thanks guys for everyone's help.

UPDATE:
Ok, so we are back in business.
After changing a total of 3 nec (2 rsx and 1 cpu) , thoroughly cleaning the "lids" and other thermals, and applying new mx4.
So, I'm still not seeing any difference in my temps. Unless I use a fan control utility, cpu will heat up to 77c (rsx 63c) just running multiman.
As long as I keep the fan around 30%, I can keep cpu around 55-57.
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Beanerman said:
Thank you @Moltiplier.

UPDATE:
Ok, so we are back in business.
After changing a total of 3 nec (2 rsx and 1 cpu) , thoroughly cleaning the "lids" and other thermals, and applying new mx4.
So, I'm still not seeing any difference in my temps. Unless I use a fan control utility, cpu will heat up to 77c (rsx 63c) just running multiman.
As long as I keep the fan around 30%, I can keep cpu around 55-57.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Photos? what were the IHS's like, did u inspect their surfaces and shape? same with the heat sinks? the way the thermal paste spreads can show certain imperfections too.

if the above helps we will know its ur method or u have over looked somthing.
 
wrx884 said:
Photos? what were the IHS's like, did u inspect their surfaces and shape? same with the heat sinks? the way the thermal paste spreads can show certain imperfections too.

if the above helps we will know its ur method or u have over looked somthing.
Click to expand...
Dude, I cleaned all thoroughly, the IHS's don't look imperfected, heat sinks look good too.
I hate to re-do paste again. Even spread on ihs and sinks.
When I redid all, paste wasn't missing on any spots.
I appreciate your help.
I delidded, and repasted a couple of my other systems, and they do fine, I don't even use a fan utility on them, not needed.
I don't know, must be missing something stupid probably.
If I tear her down again, I'll get a bunch of pics.

@jacobsson , I'll check it out, thank you.

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Well got the ps3 cechc03 today good news it working but the bad news is the bluray drive is dead as the guy pretty much haven't a clue how to take it apart mainly I couldn't care less for the bluray drive since I couldn't use rebug for that purpose so switch it for overflow cfw for the no bluray drive option quite like the theme
 
I have no idea what you just said. Also a bonus got a free ps3 super slim cech4203C I think poor thing got some slap off the ground since my brother told me
 
jojomihijo said:
Vince not to bridge two tantalum ?
Click to expand...
No he didn't, as long as there is at least one NEC/TOKIN on the board there is no need for wire bridging, the VIAs are shared amongs them, so by leaving just one NEC, it backs as an internal bridge.

But the best combination is to do what Vince, i and a few other people did as well, replace the NECs on top with Tantalums and leave the ones on the bottom as they are.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
 
Naked_Snake1995 said:
Q-3 - Does these capacitors are the cause for the YLOD?

A-3 - Statistically speaking, 94% of the YLOD its due to these capacitors, as long as the unit hasnt been touched, chances are that its the NEC/TOKIN Capacitors, due to they high failure rate,but if this fix didnt help,then chances are then its another component failure.
Click to expand...

Haven't read the whole thread yet, just a few snippets, but looks like it's about RSX/BGA solder connections not being the problem but the Nec/Tokins causing YLOD?
I'm not saying Nec/Tokins never or can't cause a YLOD but that comment:
"A-3 - Statistically speaking, 94% of the YLOD its due to these capacitors"
Should read: "Statistically speaking, 6% or maybe even only 0.6% of the YLOD its due to these capacitors"
and "94%, most likely even 99.4%, of the YLOD its due to the RSX/BGA bad solder connections"

And it's not only PS3 RSX/BGAs suffering from this.
If something is lead free, has a BGA on it and everything else like power rails and other components look/test ok there's a big chance the BGA is causing the problem.
Anyway, you know the saying, "a picture tells you more than a thousand words".
If you look at this pic and that PS3 would've had a YLOD at a certain point (which it hadn't as it was still working fine when this RSX/BGA was ripped off, the owner wanted to replace thermal paste between IHS on both RSX and CELL) what would've been the problem you think?
Nec/Tokins?
Or the RSX/BGA?
 

Attachments

So a little bit of an update from my part, might be usless information of sorts, a couple of days ago, ive been treated with another PlayStation3 that ive decide it to get only because it came with two original DualShock3s for a ridiculous cheap price, the model is a CECHL04, although i dislike the L and H Models Phats, ive decided why not to try it, its a YLOD console, so ill be used as my guinea pig.

As usual, as i always do with my consoles, i gave this bad boy a good deep clean, mind you this is a fully YLOD machine, so replacing the NECs is a must, and how do i know this even without replacing it? It boots up, but as soon as i tries to output any video format, it cuts straight away, which is good news that nothing is damaged or was repaired by someone foolish enough to damage it.

For diagnostics, blew a bit of hot air from the back, had to be careful not to damage the chassis or the back exhaust vents, after a 5 min blow, we have a video feed,but only lasts for about 10 to 30 seconds upmost, until the console enters into YLOD again, so this proves my point right, about the hair-dryer, even when i first booted the PS3 without the hair-dryer,it would show a video feed for a split second, and the heat from the hair-dryer wasnt enough to touch the substrate die nor the BGA grid, so again the NECs are done for, this time on the RSX as before.

So my point of the RSX NECs dying first seems to be plausible, it was only needed to heat up the RSX NECs for the console to show a complete video feed.

For now i wont work on this console,as i dont have any spare tantalums, have to order a few, but this seems promising, one more for me to have fun with.

PS: The C04 60Gb, is still alive and kicking, for thoes wondering, sorry for destorying your dreams :)
 
Deus said:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, just a few snippets, but looks like it's about RSX/BGA solder connections not being the problem but the Nec/Tokins causing YLOD?
I'm not saying Nec/Tokins never or can't cause a YLOD but that comment:
"A-3 - Statistically speaking, 94% of the YLOD its due to these capacitors"
Should read: "Statistically speaking, 6% or maybe even only 0.6% of the YLOD its due to these capacitors"
and "94%, most likely even 99.4%, of the YLOD its due to the RSX/BGA bad solder connections"

And it's not only PS3 RSX/BGAs suffering from this.
If something is lead free, has a BGA on it and everything else like power rails and other components look/test ok there's a big chance the BGA is causing the problem.
Anyway, you know the saying, "a picture tells you more than a thousand words".
If you look at this pic and that PS3 would've had a YLOD at a certain point (which it hadn't as it was still working fine when this RSX/BGA was ripped off, the owner wanted to replace thermal paste between IHS on both RSX and CELL) what would've been the problem you think?
Nec/Tokins?
Or the RSX/BGA?
Click to expand...

Are you sure is 6% or 0.6%? I would revise thoes numbers.

Ive ripped a couple of RSX myself from dead Phat boards, even Slims, and they all had the exact same shape, you remove them without any rework station, the purpose of a rework station is to detach the chip safely, so when removing the chip at 217ºCs, you are applying a even heat distribution, so its normal for the solder-balls to come off evenly, now he knocked that thing with a knife, who knows what kind of abuse your "client" did, so course the solder-balls will be over the place, you removed them out cold,what did you expect? I even removed PS2s EEs from the 2001 Models,mind you lead-free wasnt implemented until 2003, so there is a 2 year gap here,and all of the presented the same brown descoloration on the BGA Grid itself with leaded solder.

Reballing can be a fix,but in this case you are playing a trump card,without knowing the result,or at least you will, but you dont know how long will it last, and by reballing a console that you are not sure that the BGA is the problem in the first place, lets not compare $ony´s quality with Micro$oft, everyone assumed that if reballing worked on the 360, it works the same on the PS3s, why do you think the hair-dryer worked on the PS3, the thing doesnt even produce enough heat to actually touch the BGA Grid.

I your client just applied physical damage to the RSX itself, of course YLOD, was meant to occur, it wasnt caused by natural degradation or phenomenon, in this case reballing will indeed be necessary, praying that he didnt smashed the chip itself or ruined the PCB.

Ive delided and still delid RSXs on a daily basis, neven once a console for me had YLOD,and i delid them without any hot air or rework station involved, your "client" just delided it by pulling the chip or he struck a knife underneath, and then "evidence" like this becomes just another chit-chat talk.

You mentioned the question, and ill gladly answer, if the client doesnt state what kind of damage it has or had,then you would have to do a blind test, but for me i would start with a short low temp reflow, pretty much like a hair-dryer, if the PS3 refused to boot, then i would extend the reflow by a tiny margin,if the PS3 booted,then yes, you would start with the NECs, they need heat in order to operate, very rare case cenarios when a PS3 can be in a YLOD state,but boot in a cold enviorment or after a few tries.

PS: Hi there Squeept :)
 
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Naked_Snake1995 said:
I your client just applied physical damage to the RSX itself, of course YLOD, was meant to occur, it wasnt caused by natural degradation or phenomenon, in this case reballing will indeed be necessary, praying that he didnt smashed the chip itself or ruined the PCB. :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, but think you didn't get my point. Did you read the text besides the photo?
I never said it had a YLOD. I was only saying if it wouldn't be touched by the owner, wouldn't be damaged but it should get a YLOD later what do you think would be the most likely cause?
I'd bet not Nec/Tokins... (Again, I'll never say they can't make a PS3 fail but rather rarely)

That RSX was ripped off by accident. That PS3 was never repaired or touched in any other way than for gaming.
The owner wanted it to prevent it to get a YLOD (after reading about the delidding, replacing thermal paste etc).
It was still working never repaired, never reflowed, reballed, repasted, never been opened before, never seen any heat.

If you look closely at that picture you'll see
1 - No solder ball on the BGA, smaller looking PADs means the solder pad is still fine. Only way this can happen is that the pad wasn't really soldered or it would've been ripped off = bad/cold solder joint on the BGA.

2 - Solder balls on BGA looking larger as the balls collapse when soldering and BGA due the weight of it. These were soldered to BGA but you don't see any discolorisation, only solder so it was ripped of the PCB without ripping the PCB pad = bad/cold solder joint on the PCB or that pad should've come off.

3 - Solder balls on BGA with ripped pads from pcb attached to it. What you see is the back side of the pads (brown/copper colour) that's normally glued to the pcb. The (shiny) solder side is still connected to the solder ball on the bga = good solder joints on both PCB and RSX but the solder PAD to PCB connection probably weaker why it was ripped from the PCB.

If the BGA and all balls were soldered correctly (completely melted/bonded ond the pad) for both PCB and BGA every solder pad should be damaged on or the PCB or on the BGA.
Every solder ball still on the PCB should have some traces off a damaged padd from the BGA on it.
All solder balls still on the BGA should have some traces of damage from the PCB on it.
Or they should be ripped apart leaving some solder on the PCB and BGA.
If that's not the case and some solder pads still look fine can only mean there was never a good solder connection to it or it would be damaged.
PS3-YLOD-bad-PS3-RSX-BGA-or-bad-solder-joints-DSC05960-8k.jpg
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